Amnesty Will Destroy America

[baldeagle]

Illegal immigration isn't the only problem. Back in 1965 Ted Kennedy and his gang managed to push chain migration through Congress. Chain migration means that once one person enters the country legally, their entire family can. Then each family member can bring their immediate relatives and so forth and so on. Kennedy promised that this would not increase immigration numbers. It would merely be fair. In addition, they managed to remove all the quotas we had for individual countries, claiming it was discriminatory and racist. (If all this is sounding far too familiar, it should.)

The result? In the 60's annual influx of legal immigrants was 321,375. Today it's 1,029,943, more than 3 times as much - ANNUALLY. It doesn't take a genius to figure out the impact of this annual increase in legal immigration. Go to almost any retail outlet in America and you will find someone whose English is difficult to understand and whose birthplace is obviously not America. There's nothing necessarily wrong with that. After all, we are and have always been a nation of immigrants. However, the scale of the immigration problem is readily apparent no matter where you live, and that tells you something about where we are headed.

The illegal immigration problem exacerbates the problem. Not only does it increase the numbers coming here, but it builds an underclass that sees the law as merely a suggestion. If I can enter the country illegally and nothing happens to me, in fact I get rewarded with free education, food stamps, aid to dependent children, automatic citizenship for my children and the belief that laws aren't really enforced here anyway. It also impacts legal immigrants insidiously. Why should they go through ten to twelve years of frustrating hoops to come here and become a citizen when all they have to do is walk across the border and then wait for Congress to reward them for their walk?

[VMI77]

The illegal immigration problem exacerbates the problem. Not only does it increase the numbers coming here, but it builds an underclass that sees the law as merely a suggestion. If I can enter the country illegally and nothing happens to me, in fact I get rewarded with free education, food stamps, aid to dependent children, automatic citizenship for my children and the belief that laws aren't really enforced here anyway. It also impacts legal immigrants insidiously. Why should they go through ten to twelve years of frustrating hoops to come here and become a citizen when all they have to do is walk across the border and then wait for Congress to reward them for their walk?

Yes, but I would maintain that it is deliberate: a "feature" rather than a bug (from the point of view of those making the law).

[Jumping Frog]

Immigration is an important question that deserves serious discussion of policy options. Everyone knows the current system is broken and insane.

However, I am not willing to even seriously discuss policy options until the border is first sealed and made secure. Stop the inflow first. Then we can discuss what to do with all the people that want to immigrate and the people who are already here illegally.

Until the border is secure, all other conversation is a deliberate and intentional farce.

Aside from resolving the secure border question, the United States is still the most desirable place to live in the world. With that competitive advantage, a rational policy would attract the absolute global cream of the crop. We should be able to have the world's finest scientists, engineers, tradespeople, business people, entrepreneurs, artists, etc., etc., etc. immigrating to our country.

Instead, we are getting cartels and gangs, unskilled labor, and welfare cheats being part of the mix of people entering the country illegally. If unskilled labor and gangsters were an important addition to society, why isn't that working out in Mexico?

Insanity.

I am not anti-immigrant, I am anti-illegal immigrant and anti-parasite.

[texanjoker]

Problem with all this is, I have been here before. I remember when Regan signed the last amnesty bill. Yeah that was going to fix everything. All the same good reasons, all the same good benefits. Now 30 years later we are back in the same exact spot.

I remember people coming into the department I worked during this amnesty to be fingerprinted as we had to do it. Some were people I grew up with. I specifically remembered one. He would receive free lunch at school (he paid with a coupon) when I worked in the cafeteria for my lunch. Then he would then come back and buy a 2nd lunch each day with cash. Amnesty was a winner.

But if we are not going to secure our borders, deport anybody or do anything about it, we might as well try and ID the ones already here and not on public assistance (we already know who they are).

[Beiruty]

What is more amazing is that most legal immigrants are ardently against illegal immigration.

[cb1000rider]

However, I am not willing to even seriously discuss policy options until the border is first sealed and made secure. Stop the inflow first. Then we can discuss what to do with all the people that want to immigrate and the people who are already here illegally.

Until the border is secure, all other conversation is a deliberate and intentional farce.

I disagree with you. We're not serious about enforcing the laws that are currently on the books, so why should we spend Billions more on border security if we're going to allow the illegals that are over here work out in the open?

The bottom line is that there are some major political players that need the labor of illegals. Securing the border isn't in their best interest. They're farmers. They're home builders. Basically take your pick of any low-skilled labor field in the USA and it's in those businesses best interest to keep the illegal labor flowing. These interests fill the pockets of political campaigns and although no one wants to talk about it, it's the real reason why we're not doing anything other than token prosecutions of employers. It's the reason why on any given day I can point out 30 illegals waiting for work. If I could point out 30 prostitutes waiting for work, we'd do something about it.

We're not serious about solving this issue as we openly allow the employment of illegals. Want to spend my tax dollars (and increase our deficit)? Start enforcing the laws that we've got.

I'm not pro-illegal, but the reality is:
1) Our economy will drastically change, especially in Texas if illegal labor isn't an option. Ever wonder why a home here costs $200k and the same thing in the NE runs $450k+
2) Illegals contribute to our economy massively. It's hard to quantify this contribution. Is it a net gain compared to the drag on the "free services" that they can get? I suspect it is, but it's a moot point as you can't exactly put metrics on illegal activity.

My solution - and yea, I have a solution here:
1) Accept that we can't change it without massive spend on thousands of miles of border and a real impact on our economy. The increase in taxes required to cover it and the increase in costs of goods and services would hit everyone. More security = more taxes. That's just reality.
2) Implement a real guest worker program. These people are paying $4000-$7000 to get into Texas via illegal means. Lets charge them that money at the border (revenue gain), tax their wages, and make it so they can go back. Lets make it so they have to go back. Use the revenue gain for background checks and increased border security.
3) As part of the guest worker program, we stabilize medical emergencies, but we don't subsidize lifestyle. Children born here under the guest worker program don't become citizens automatically.

The result is a win for everyone: It serves the political interests, it increases border security, and it helps our economy rather than further hurting it...

[2firfun50]

Problem with all this is, I have been here before. I remember when Regan signed the last amnesty bill. Yeah that was going to fix everything. All the same good reasons, all the same good benefits. Now 30 years later we are back in the same exact spot.

But if we are not going to secure our borders, deport anybody or do anything about it, we might as well try and ID the ones already here and not on public assistance (we already know who they are).

I tend to agree with this position. Gather up your electronic, portable finger printing equipment, and go visit every construction site, road construction project, and farm in Texas. Get their fingerprints and addresses, issue a temporary ID, make sure the employer is withholding income taxes and social security from their wages. Make sure the employer is in compliance with labor and safety laws. Make sure they have auto insurance if applicable. After all, these folks are working for a living. Make them pay just like everyone else.

Lets collect money to run the government rather than throwing away hundreds of billions trying to secure the border. The drug cartels beat us everyday on that one.

Oh well, the DHS and FBI had a good day yesterday chasing hookers in Plano. http://dfw.cbslocal.com/2013/06/19/pros ... tion-ring/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; I feel much more secure now.

rant off

[chuck j]

I do don't gage a man by his education .

Education is the key to higher financial achievements. Even though, I do have uncles who had only intermediate level education, but still they were so successful as businessmen, they raised great generations of theirs.

Education is the key in those days to be successful in the internet age.

While I don't disagree with you, it's not the only path to success. It's probably the easiest one.

I do not gage a man by success as wealth and power .
I do not gage a man by his education
I gage a man for the man he is

You have the last word .

[philip964]

I personally know of a case where a woman from the UK came to America on a tourist visa, while here, fell in love and married a man from the US. She lived here for 20 years. Got a green card, got a social security card. Qualified to receive social security when she reached 62. Never changed her visa or immigration status.

Got divorced, got the house that was much nicer than mine in the settlement. Her ex told the Immigration folks about the change in status. She spent about $10,000 on immigration attorneys to try and stay in the US. Lost all appeals.

Later, armed ICE agents came to her place of work and arrested her. She was held for one year at the ICE detention facility in Houston near the Bush Airport, while more hearings were held (you paid all the bills) She was released and started working again. She was then was advised, she was going to be re-arrested (when you have a real job with a real social security number they can find you real easy) unless she reported on her own to the International airport of Bush. She did not want to go back to jail again, so she reported and was give a free airline ticket to London. (your nickle again)

Once in London, although relatively well off in the US, she took no money with her naturally and so on arrival was enrolled right into the welfare system of England. Money, place to live, free healthcare, etc.

She has readjusted, has a job in London, I occasionally get a post card from the South of France, when she is on holiday. Soon the US will be sending her social security benefits to her in England. She will probably comfortably retire in England with two pensions. In a few years she will be able to legally travel again to the US, so she can visit her friends and relatives who live here, and spend some of the money she has here.

But she will not get any amnesty. Nice ladies from England, to heck with people like that.

[suthdj]

What is more amazing is that most legal immigrants are ardently against illegal immigration.

Amen, You met my wife it took us 6-7 years to get her citizenship when it should have only taken 3-4 years had the system worked. It angers her so much when she learns how so many of them are getting over on the system and we have to pay for everything we get.

My take on this whole thing is like this.
1. Seal the border, use the Military if you need more man power.
then and only after #1 is complete
2. Deport ALL illegals or if we must give them amnesty they can NEVER NEVER NEVER vote or draw benefits.
3. Develop a system that works best for the American people not the rest of the world U.S. citizenship is only a right to those that are born here.

I know I live in a dream world.

[VMI77]

I personally know of a case where a woman from the UK came to America on a tourist visa, while here, fell in love and married a man from the US. She lived here for 20 years. Got a green card, got a social security card. Qualified to receive social security when she reached 62. Never changed her visa or immigration status.

Got divorced, got the house that was much nicer than mine in the settlement. Her ex told the Immigration folks about the change in status. She spent about $10,000 on immigration attorneys to try and stay in the US. Lost all appeals.

Later, armed ICE agents came to her place of work and arrested her. She was held for one year at the ICE detention facility in Houston near the Bush Airport, while more hearings were held (you paid all the bills) She was released and started working again. She was then was advised, she was going to be re-arrested (when you have a real job with a real social security number they can find you real easy) unless she reported on her own to the International airport of Bush. She did not want to go back to jail again, so she reported and was give a free airline ticket to London. (your nickle again)

Once in London, although relatively well off in the US, she took no money with her naturally and so on arrival was enrolled right into the welfare system of England. Money, place to live, free healthcare, etc.

She has readjusted, has a job in London, I occasionally get a post card from the South of France, when she is on holiday. Soon the US will be sending her social security benefits to her in England. She will probably comfortably retire in England with two pensions. In a few years she will be able to legally travel again to the US, so she can visit her friends and relatives who live here, and spend some of the money she has here.

But she will not get any amnesty. Nice ladies from England, to heck with people like that.

The left doesn't have any use for people like her --they don't fit the narrative and they can't be depended on to vote Democratic.

[baldeagle]

I'm not pro-illegal, but the reality is:
1) Our economy will drastically change, especially in Texas if illegal labor isn't an option. Ever wonder why a home here costs $200k and the same thing in the NE runs $450k+

By your logic, California homes should be even cheaper than Texas homes, but we all know that's obviously not true. (California has far more illegals than Texas does.)

There are other factors involved, not illegal immigration.

A combination of available land and lending regulations have kept housing prices comparatively low and helped Texas avoid the real estate depression that dragged down many other state economies.

2) Illegals contribute to our economy massively. It's hard to quantify this contribution. Is it a net gain compared to the drag on the "free services" that they can get? I suspect it is, but it's a moot point as you can't exactly put metrics on illegal activity.

The net effect on the economy of illegals (both contribution to and demand from) is essentially neutral.

There are places in the United States where illegal immigration has big effects (both positive and negative). But economists generally believe that when averaged over the whole economy, the effect is a small net positive. Harvard's George Borjas says the average American's wealth is increased by less than 1 percent because of illegal immigration.

Since the basis of your argument is so flawed, your solutions must be as well.

[The Annoyed Man]

I do don't gage a man by his education .

Note, I said education, not formal education, college education, etc. Most college graduates, especially in the Liberal Arts, are mis-educated. College has become a joke in this country. At least 50% of those graduating from college lack the intellectual ability to attend a real college in the first place, and college curriculum's have been dumbed down in accommodation. I've worked with many intelligent and self-educated people who never even finished high school. Many of them quit not because they weren't smart enough to graduate, but because they were simply too intelligent not to realize how stupid high school really is. My wife quit high school and got a GED because she realized that another two years of wasting time there was just too ridiculous to contemplate. My sons were homeschooled and never attended high school at all, and both of them found college easy, graduating with honors. I say this not to brag, merely to to show how superfluous the public school system is, and what little actual education takes place there. Both were nervous about succeeding in college before they went but once there discovered that most of their fellow students were actually quite dumb, and most of those who weren't were sadly uniformed about almost everything. Our high schools, and colleges to a large extent too, are indoctrination centers, not places of education.

My parents were both college professors. I've had 3 years of college and never gradgimatated.

When I think of education, I think of deliberate learning as opposed to deliberate ignorance. I own and operate a private business, and I manage to tie my own shoes every morning, without that degree. BUT.....

....I also told my son REPEATEDLY, "Don't do like I did, and your life will be much easier."

Even so, the value of a college degree is directly proportional to A) the state of the economy at any given time, and B) the relevance of your particular degree to the available employment available within that economy at any given time. A very recent issue of Readers Digest (one of my wife's monthly vices) has an article about young people graduating from college and just how hard it is to find a good job, and how they've had to adjust their dreams about the future in order to find employment. ALL of those interviewed had degrees in subjects like Art Education and Political Science. The pool of available jobs for art teachers and political scientists is REALLY small, but it is more than that. It's not that they are not valuable in their own right, but both subjects are indulgences which are relevant in affluent societies. There are probably a lot fewer opportunities for art teachers in Afghanistan, for instance, then there for math teachers. The liberal arts are societal indulgences. We should want to have them, but they are not among the bare essentials of survival. We've been in a pretty severe economic downturn, lasting longer than this year's graduates have been in college. The economy was down BEFORE they entered college, they KNEW it was down, and yet they still chose to study in fields that practically guaranteed them employment difficulty after college. The old chestnut about liberal arts majors selling burgers and fries is actually decades old by now, and I'm guessing that engineering and chemistry majors are finding it a lot easier to find employment.

Even so, most universities will allow you to switch majors up to a certain point, simply requiring you to take the additional classes necessary to the new major which you haven't yet taken. So when a newly graduated college student can't find a job because they chose to get a degree in an educational specialty for which society at large has relatively little use right now, well....shame on them. They've actually earned the consequences of poor decision making.

[Ameer]

Even so, most universities will allow you to switch majors up to a certain point, simply requiring you to take the additional classes necessary to the new major which you haven't yet taken. So when a newly graduated college student can't find a job because they chose to get a degree in an educational specialty for which society at large has relatively little use right now, well....shame on them. They've actually earned the consequences of poor decision making.

That works for LIBERAL arts majors who only need 30 credit hours out of 120 in their major. That's just one year.

For students in the sciences and applied sciences, or who want to switch to one of those majors, many have 90 credit hours of required classes. That makes it very difficult to change tracks after sophomore year unless it's a very small change or they have rich parents.

However, there's always self employment for people who have something to offer that illiterate peasants don't.