Slaton police arrest woman after request to see warrant

[paperchunker]

I read this and I ask myself what would I do? First thank God my son has completed both High School and College without too much drama. But with that said, I considered myself then and now as the primary protector for my family. What happened to Policeman instead of Law Enforcement Person? I know it is hard doing verbal de-escalation but arresting a mother for doing what is natural? With the heightened tensions in this Nation concerning Government Enforcers and the people, you come to my home and without even talking with me and just want to snatch my child? What about the community's feelings toward L.E. now? All deference to EElis and others on this board, but the fight could be on. I didn't spend 21 years in the Military because I enjoyed it, it was for my Family first and foremost. I know I would lose the fight, be arrested or worse, but that is my makeup. I am not Mr. Brave, but my family is my family and others are strangers and possible dangers to my family unit. But, bring me in on what is going on, give me that chance to protect my family, through Lawyers, Pastors or whatnot and all will consider themselves winners. Or don't, everyone's choice...We can continue to make it an us against them, when in reality we usually have the same goals.

I started to say the same thing, but what I wrote was not as articulate as you so I erased it.

[EEllis]

<SNIP>

Show me the law.

Ask and you shall receive.

Where? Nothing you posted says squat about showing anyone a warrant before arrest. There must be a signed warrant but the officers don't have to have it present nor do they have to show it before aresting anyone.

To come to your house, drag you from your home without a warrant requires one of the exceptions above. To drag a minor child (or anyone) from a home on a criminal complaint sworn out requires a warrant.. I do not believe those positing a "contempt of cop arrest" are the ones "ignorant of the law".

They must have a warrant but they don't have to show you or the kids Momma which is what I have said and you ignored. You are not making your point just showing you don't understand.

[EEllis]

Would it be ok to search the house if the officer thought that a warrant was going to be issued?

Different circumstance different procedure. A search warrant needs to be present and arrest warrant doesn't. Mind you I never said it was "OK". I clearly said they screwed up but that doesn't equate to the horror that some seem to believe occurred.

[EEllis]

I read this and I ask myself what would I do? First thank God my son has completed both High School and College without too much drama. But with that said, I considered myself then and now as the primary protector for my family. What happened to Policeman instead of Law Enforcement Person? I know it is hard doing verbal de-escalation but arresting a mother for doing what is natural? With the heightened tensions in this Nation concerning Government Enforcers and the people, you come to my home and without even talking with me and just want to snatch my child? What about the community's feelings toward L.E. now? All deference to EElis and others on this board, but the fight could be on. I didn't spend 21 years in the Military because I enjoyed it, it was for my Family first and foremost. I know I would lose the fight, be arrested or worse, but that is my makeup. I am not Mr. Brave, but my family is my family and others are strangers and possible dangers to my family unit. But, bring me in on what is going on, give me that chance to protect my family, through Lawyers, Pastors or whatnot and all will consider themselves winners. Or don't, everyone's choice...We can continue to make it an us against them, when in reality we usually have the same goals.

So cops legally come, because at that point the Mother was already aware and believed the officers were correct in having a warrant, to arrest your child for a major felony and because they don't show you a paper that they are not required to and wouldn't have on them under any normal circumstances and you say that "the fight would be on?" That is natural to you? Look I don't know maybe the cop over reacted and could of dealt with the Mother better but why in the heck would I assume the cop was in the wrong and if you think fighting the cops is so natural then why would you assume she stood there and in no way obstructed the police and just asked for a warrant? How do you know how long the cop may have spent trying to talk this lady down? You decided how you wanted the story to go the populated it with assumptions and strawmen.

[Texas Sheepdog]

[mamabearCali]

So cops legally come, because at that point the Mother was already aware and believed the officers were correct in having a warrant, to arrest your child for a major felony and because they don't show you a paper that they are not required to and wouldn't have on them under any normal circumstances and you say that "the fight would be on?" That is natural to you? Look I don't know maybe the cop over reacted and could of dealt with the Mother better but why in the heck would I assume the cop was in the wrong and if you think fighting the cops is so natural then why would you assume she stood there and in no way obstructed the police and just asked for a warrant? How do you know how long the cop may have spent trying to talk this lady down? You decided how you wanted the story to go the populated it with assumptions and strawmen.

So someone shows up at your door demanding your 11 year old son, you would hand them over with no questions asked because they are in uniform? Producing a warrant is not unreasonable and protects everyone.

If it was me, I would be asking for a warrant, and proof of identity. Then upon such proof that they were not a goon squad pretending to be LEO's. I would be insisting that they do not question him without me or a lawyer present and I would be telling him not to say a word in the interim.

Remember this is an 11 year old, not a 16 or 17 year old. This is a child in every sense of the word. Can children still do terrible things, yes, but they are children and the parents of children have the responsiblity to see to their welfare. checking to make sure the people at your door have a warrant and really are LEO's is the minimum I would expect from a parent.

I am certain that if they had anything to charge the mother with....to save face and to save themselves a lawsuit.....they would have charged her with something.

[EEllis]

So cops legally come, because at that point the Mother was already aware and believed the officers were correct in having a warrant, to arrest your child for a major felony and because they don't show you a paper that they are not required to and wouldn't have on them under any normal circumstances and you say that "the fight would be on?" That is natural to you? Look I don't know maybe the cop over reacted and could of dealt with the Mother better but why in the heck would I assume the cop was in the wrong and if you think fighting the cops is so natural then why would you assume she stood there and in no way obstructed the police and just asked for a warrant? How do you know how long the cop may have spent trying to talk this lady down? You decided how you wanted the story to go the populated it with assumptions and strawmen.

So someone shows up at your door demanding your 11 year old son, you would hand them over with no questions asked because they are in uniform? Producing a warrant is not unreasonable and protects everyone.

If it was me, I would be asking for a warrant, and proof of identity. Then upon such proof that they were not a goon squad pretending to be LEO's. I would be insisting that they do not question him without me or a lawyer present and I would be telling him not to say a word in the interim.

Remember this is an 11 year old, not a 16 or 17 year old. This is a child in every sense of the word. Can children still do terrible things, yes, but they are children and the parents of children have the responsiblity to see to their welfare. checking to make sure the people at your door have a warrant and really are LEO's is the minimum I would expect from a parent.

I am certain that if they had anything to charge the mother with....to save face and to save themselves a lawsuit.....they would have charged her with something.

Where did I say that? Does no one actually read the posts? Sure I would ask what where and why but I wouldn't demand things I wasn't entitled to and that they were not required to provide. It doesn't say they wouldn't ID themselves now did it. It said she "demanded" to see a warrant. She doesn't have that right and the cops don't have that duty.Yes the kid was 11 but the alleged victim was 5 and if true the kid could provide a threat to the public , or at least the little neighborhood girls, so playing his age don't work for me. Also his mom knew who was there and why. She was waiting for them being told ahead of time the cops were coming for her kid so this wasn't her getting up from dinner shocked and unaware. As to the no charge thing two thoughts. First you are wrong about the save face crap. DA's drop crap all the time because prosecuting would be a hassle and a negative for their office. Superiors in police depts tell officers that they will drop charges if it suits their needs. Cops are not backed up by the system in the way you seem to wish to believe. Second I said that I thought her arrest couldn't sustain charges because there wasn't a valid warrant for her son. It was signed hours latter. Now that doesn't automatically make her arrest unlawful because it's based on what the office believes not what is true, but if that belief is later found incorrect of course charges are dropped. She couldn't of obstructed serving a warrant that wasn't valid so the charges were dropped. If the cop thought the warrant was good then at the time it was a legal arrest. See how that works.

[tbrown]

What was she charged with?

I'm surprised they didn't charge her with leaving the 11 year old unsupervised while she was locked up.

[philip964]

First thing is coming inside the house. Was the police officer invited inside the home? She would have to bring the child to the door, if she denied entry. Since he did not get the child, I would guess she denied entry. Since she is the legal guardian, it would seem important that she protect the child's legal rights, and see if there was a valid arrest warrant for the child. In this situation I see no difference between the mother and an attorney. Would the police officer have arrested the child's attorney in the same situation?

[texanjoker]

Regarding the "arrest" of the mother, how close does this come to felony aggravated kidnapping, false imprisonment, or something like that? Assuming she was well within her rights to ask to see the warrant and all. Or is it not really close because it is LE?

She has no right to see a warrant before an arrest. As long as the police were acting in good faith, if they believed they where acting in accordance with the law even if their actions were later found to be contrary to the law then there wouldn't be any criminal liability. If the officers knew and believed they were operating in contrary to the law then there could be several State and Federal Charges. Since here arrest sure seems like it would of been legal, tho we don't know the exact charge, if the warrant had been signed at the time instead of hours later, making sweeping statements about the conduct of the police seems a bit kneejerk right now.

Whether you have a right to see a warrant or not, how does a mother "asking" to see one for her son constitute an offense? The warrant, issued or not, was not for her. Why are we commingling a warrant for the arrest of her son with the arrest of the mother? One has nothing to do with the other as I see it. And, if the police did nothing wrong, why is the department willing to apologize as long as she doesn't file suit?

Correction the department is allegedly willing to apologize based on an anonymous person speaking through an attorney. There is no way to know if that is the truth or not without hearing from the city.

[tbrown]

A sincere apology comes without strings attached. If it's conditional, it's obvious they're not really sorry.

[EEllis]

First thing is coming inside the house. Was the police officer invited inside the home? She would have to bring the child to the door, if she denied entry. Since he did not get the child, I would guess she denied entry. Since she is the legal guardian, it would seem important that she protect the child's legal rights, and see if there was a valid arrest warrant for the child. In this situation I see no difference between the mother and an attorney. Would the police officer have arrested the child's attorney in the same situation?

Yes there is no law requiring them to show a warrant just that they inform the defendant of said warrant and charge. Of course a lawyer would know better so it's a trick question.

[mamabearCali]

Where did I say that? Does no one actually read the posts? Sure I would ask what where and why but I wouldn't demand things I wasn't entitled to and that they were not required to provide. It doesn't say they wouldn't ID themselves now did it. It said she "demanded" to see a warrant. She doesn't have that right and the cops don't have that duty.Yes the kid was 11 but the alleged victim was 5 and if true the kid could provide a threat to the public , or at least the little neighborhood girls, so playing his age don't work for me. Also his mom knew who was there and why. She was waiting for them being told ahead of time the cops were coming for her kid so this wasn't her getting up from dinner shocked and unaware. As to the no charge thing two thoughts. First you are wrong about the save face crap. DA's drop crap all the time because prosecuting would be a hassle and a negative for their office. Superiors in police depts tell officers that they will drop charges if it suits their needs. Cops are not backed up by the system in the way you seem to wish to believe. Second I said that I thought her arrest couldn't sustain charges because there wasn't a valid warrant for her son. It was signed hours latter. Now that doesn't automatically make her arrest unlawful because it's based on what the office believes not what is true, but if that belief is later found incorrect of course charges are dropped. She couldn't of obstructed serving a warrant that wasn't valid so the charges were dropped. If the cop thought the warrant was good then at the time it was a legal arrest. See how that works.

I read what you said every word. You say a parent has no right to see an arrest warrant. So if a LEO comes for your child you will just hand them over no problem?

An 11 year old charged with rape is very serious of course, but all the more reason to do everything in an upright a manner as possible. He obviously was not enough of a threat....they did not even arrest him at that time, but waited days.

As far as baloney charges.....they happen all the time. People charged with what amounts to contempt of cop. They then either plead or are forced to spend $$ on clearing their name. If you don't hear of this, I don't know where you ae looking.

[EEllis]

I read what you said every word. You say a parent has no right to see an arrest warrant. So if a LEO comes for your child you will just hand them over no problem?

If a cop showed up, identified himself, explained that they were serving a warrant for my child and tells me what the warrant was for? Yes I would allow them to arrest my kid. That is the law and unless I had some big reason to think having a shootout with the cops would be better than taking it to court then what the heck else would you do? Get arrested for the sake of making a point with no real, well maybe even a negative, effect on the charges for your kid? Who is supposed to be the adult?

An 11 year old charged with rape is very serious of course, but all the more reason to do everything in an upright a manner as possible. He obviously was not enough of a threat....they did not even arrest him at that time, but waited days.

First he was arrested the next day. When the warrant was valid, second when looking at her statement she indicated she would turn over her son when shown a warrant. Indicating that she had some control but refused to cooperate. Not standing mute but saying I could but won't unless you do what I demand. Unfortunately she has no right to make that demand that I find in Texas law. That may be enough to arrest her but still might not allow them to enter her home to search for her son which we don't even know if he was at that location, and finally we are talking about a force with 10 full time officers. 10. After arresting this mother of the year maybe it might take awhile to get someone else out. Maybe at some point they realized the warrant never got signed. The delay without more info means squat.

As far as baloney charges.....they happen all the time. People charged with what amounts to contempt of cop. They then either plead or are forced to spend $$ on clearing their name. If you don't hear of this, I don't know where you ae looking.

You say you can read so show me where this came up? Oh because I disagreed with you assertion that since charges where dropped they couldn't of been valid? Well I'm sorry but saying people sometimes get railroaded, or phrase it how you will, still does not prove your point. Both things can happen at different times. Mind you I already said that I think the arrest would be invalid but ..............

[mamabearCali]

I read what you said every word. You say a parent has no right to see an arrest warrant. So if a LEO comes for your child you will just hand them over no problem?

If a cop showed up, identified himself, explained that they were serving a warrant for my child and tells me what the warrant was for? Yes I would allow them to arrest my kid. That is the law and unless I had some big reason to think having a shootout with the cops would be better than taking it to court then what the heck else would you do? Get arrested for the sake of making a point with no real, well maybe even a negative, effect on the charges for your kid? Who is supposed to be the adult?

An 11 year old charged with rape is very serious of course, but all the more reason to do everything in an upright a manner as possible. He obviously was not enough of a threat....they did not even arrest him at that time, but waited days.

First he was arrested the next day. When the warrant was valid, second when looking at her statement she indicated she would turn over her son when shown a warrant. Indicating that she had some control but refused to cooperate. Not standing mute but saying I could but won't unless you do what I demand. Unfortunately she has no right to make that demand that I find in Texas law. That may be enough to arrest her but still might not allow them to enter her home to search for her son which we don't even know if he was at that location, and finally we are talking about a force with 10 full time officers. 10. After arresting this mother of the year maybe it might take awhile to get someone else out. Maybe at some point they realized the warrant never got signed. The delay without more info means squat.

As far as baloney charges.....they happen all the time. People charged with what amounts to contempt of cop. They then either plead or are forced to spend $$ on clearing their name. If you don't hear of this, I don't know where you ae looking.

You say you can read so show me where this came up? Oh because I disagreed with you assertion that since charges where dropped they couldn't of been valid? Well I'm sorry but saying people sometimes get railroaded, or phrase it how you will, still does not prove your point. Both things can happen at different times. Mind you I already said that I think the arrest would be invalid but ..............

And when the cop arrests you for asking what your son is being charged with or tells you it is none of your business (because that is that the cop thinks the law is).....which is pretty close to what happened here.....what then?

As a lay person I would expect a LEO at a door looking for a child to have their ducks on order. If I don't have my ducks in order and I interact with a LEO in a simple traffic stop I will be punished as far as the law allows.

As far as I can tell, she was arrested because the LEO did not want to take the time to explain things. She was in his way and he could not be bothered. That is not okay no matter how many people are on the force. If a particular agency has so few LEO's all the more important to cultivate good Public relations.