Simplicity is Best

[jdhz28]

How about this. Let's look for a single example of a government regulation that remained where it started. I've never been able to find one, perhaps you will do better. Once a regulation sticks, there are more to follow and even more to follow that. Government regulators have no natural predators to control them. The jackals report that regulators don't even taste good.

but it may make the anti gun crowd then shut up for a while.

No it won't. The anti-gun crowd's goal is to completely disarm the American public. They well understand why that 2nd Amendment was put into place in the first place - to counter governmental tyranny. If you will notice, the ones who publicly push gun control are the same ones who push the UN Agenda 21 and other "world government" initiatives. That is NOT a coincidence.

Simple is "shall not be infringed." I agree with keeping it simple.

I suppose you're right, I like the other persons response about constitutional carry. I just thought it sounded simple enough and didn't infringe anymore on our rights, at the same time making a bit harder to get a gun, for people who didn't need to have one. I guess it's a good thing I'm not a politician. Just in conversation, something that seemed so simple, got picked apart in a few hours...I see why nothing ever gets done now.

[Wodathunkit]

How about this. Let's look for a single example of a government regulation that remained where it started. I've never been able to find one, perhaps you will do better. Once a regulation sticks, there are more to follow and even more to follow that. Government regulators have no natural predators to control them. The jackals report that regulators don't even taste good.

but it may make the anti gun crowd then shut up for a while.

No it won't. The anti-gun crowd's goal is to completely disarm the American public. They well understand why that 2nd Amendment was put into place in the first place - to counter governmental tyranny. If you will notice, the ones who publicly push gun control are the same ones who push the UN Agenda 21 and other "world government" initiatives. That is NOT a coincidence.

Simple is "shall not be infringed." I agree with keeping it simple.

I suppose you're right, I like the other persons response about constitutional carry. I just thought it sounded simple enough and didn't infringe anymore on our rights, at the same time making a bit harder to get a gun, for people who didn't need to have one. I guess it's a good thing I'm not a politician. Just in conversation, something that seemed so simple, got picked apart in a few hours...I see why nothing ever gets done now.

Nope, you are a responsible gun owner, and as such you are just trying to do what's best, the problem is, this "moral high ground" that we self impose on ourselves just winds up getting us buried deeper and deeper in regulations.

I think we are all guilty of it. Like JimLongly wrote above, it's not compromise....it's concession. No more!

[anygunanywhere]

I just thought it sounded simple enough and didn't infringe anymore on our rights, at the same time making a bit harder to get a gun, for people who didn't need to have one.

This statement of yours is where you need to do some soul searching.

Rights are given to us by God and cannot be taken away. As stated before, "need" has no bearing on the second amendment.

Anygunanywhere

[Beiruty]

NOW, and effectively, let us see how "simple" is it, to acquire a Firearms ID in Boston, MA

If you want to know how to get a gun legally in Boston, here are the unconstitutional steps a legal citizen needs to go through. Go pass some more laws Tommy you blithering idiot commie Time to complete all steps and get license: 89 days Total cost to fulfill all requirements (does not include the costs of buying a gun): $422 Summary of required steps: -take approved pistol safety class -become a member of a gun club -apply for license -pass Moon Island range test Detailed steps: 1 - Review application for Class A license, $0, 0 days There are three types of licenses available (listed in order of increasing usefulness): FID, Class B and Class A. FID and Class B are nearly worthless; do not bother with them. You want a Class A. The application can be found at: http://www.mass.gov/chsb/pdfs/frb/frb_fid_lic_app.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; NOTE: This application paperwork is not accepted by the City of Boston. It is no better or worse than Boston's requirements, but Boston requires its own paperwork. If you see no problems on the state application, then you won't have any problems with Boston's version. Boston's application is not available online and must be picked up in person. See Step 9 below (Prior to applying in person in Boston, you should review question-section of the state application. You will be asked every question on the state application.) 2 - Decide to get CLASS A gun license and maybe a gun, $0, 0 days Call local gun club to find out the scheduling of the next open NRA Certified Basic Pistol Safety Class. Recommended: Boston Gun and Rifle Association has classes every week. Phone: 617 436 8846 Website: http://www.bostongunclub.net" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; Cost: $150/class. 3 - Sign up for class at BGRA, $150, 1 day BGRA - need to bring filled out application, found on website (http://www.bostongunclub.net" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;). To be prudent, try to sign up a week or so before the class. However, they often have openings in the next scheduled class. Check or cash [edit: they now take credit cards as well (or debit with a visa/mc logo)]. The BGRA is located at Fields Corner, on a side-street just after going under the subway bridge (when heading south on Dorchester Ave from Boston). Hard to find. Call the BGRA and ask for directions from whomever you talk to. You have to press a buzzer to be allowed in. 4 - Start basic pistol safety class, $0, 3 days Held at BGRA 5 - Graduate basic pistol safety class, $0, 7 days Don't lose the graduation papers. This is a good point to confirm that you want to spend the rest of the time and money necessary to get a license. 6 - Join a gun club, $150, 1 day Many clubs have more extensive facilities than the BGRA. The BGRA has a benefit of location and a friendly atmosphere, but if you have a car and don't mind a short drive, there are better facilities outside of the Boston city limits (BGRA is a pistol range only). http://www.goal.org" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; has a list of ranges in the surrounding counties. At the BGRA, take $25 off if you sign up within a month of taking the class. 7* - Target shooting tutorial. Prep for Moon Island test, $22, 4 days Assuming you're taking this from Bob at BGRA. You will get his card upon finishing the class. The hour or so tutorial is not expensive, but possibly not worth the money if you think you're good enough already or you know someone who will let you train on their .38 revolver. The Moon Island test is described in all its gory detail below. Presumably best day for both you and the trainer will be several days after graduation. 8 - Get club membership letter, $0, 4 days (about a week from step 6) The time between applying (step 6) and getting notice of membership, should be less than 2 weeks. 9 - Fill out Class A license and apply, $100, 1 day Note: to apply in Boston you must pick up an application in person from the licensing dept. Call the BPD (617 343 4425 - license dept., 617 343 4200 - main number) to verify the hours that they are open. You may have to schedule a few hours off from work to go pick up application, and--if you are actually applying on a different day--a few hours to apply. Don't bother applying for anything but a CLASS A license (you will be issued either an unrestricted or a restricted Class A license). The only Bostonians who get unrestricted class A licenses are crime victims, business owners who make cash deposits, or people connected politically. When asking for a CLASS A license, expect first question from police to be "what do you want that for?" Possible answers: "for all lawful purposes", "sport/target", or "business-related". You will need: Drivers License, copy of Birth Certificate, 2 Utility Bills, copy of Gun Course Certificate, copy of Letter of Membership from gun club, and 2 references (name, address, phone #). (if you are applying for a "business-related" license you will need more paperwork--they will give you a list). Pick application in person: 1190 Tremont St., Roxbury, MA 8:30 - 3:30 Monday-Friday. You can show up with the required paperwork and apply immediately, or you can take the application home and bring it back filled out and with papers. Application processs: you will be fingerprinted with ink, fingerscanned, and photographed (photograph will be shown on license). You will be verbally asked all of the questions on the state application by an officer. You will be asked to choose a range date for test and given a permission slip for the range date. DO NOT LOSE PERMISSION SLIP. Cash, not check or credit. ATM machine on site.** 10* - Take Moon Island test, $0, 3 days Bring the permission slip given to you in step 9. Moon Island test can be scheduled for any weekday, either at 7am or 4pm. Presumably, you could take it the next day. Estimate the shortest time to be 3 days from the day you apply for a license. 11 - Receive Class A license, $0, 42 days The officer said that this would take 5-6 weeks, (but probably less) to get license. I don't know if they started processing the day after I filled out the forms or the day after the range test. The officer's statement, while encouraging, seems to contradict the actual facts. In conversation with other license applicants, and my own experience, it seems that the licensing process takes a Minimum of 6 weeks and could take more than 100 days. On anecdotal evidence, it seems to take anywhere from 2 to 6 months for the Boston police department to actually issue a license

Source: http://bostonherald.com/news_opinion/lo ... un_control" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[chasfm11]

I suppose you're right, I like the other persons response about constitutional carry. I just thought it sounded simple enough and didn't infringe anymore on our rights, at the same time making a bit harder to get a gun, for people who didn't need to have one. I guess it's a good thing I'm not a politician. Just in conversation, something that seemed so simple, got picked apart in a few hours...I see why nothing ever gets done now.

I think that we are on very different sides of the spectrum. My view is that WAY TOO MUCH gets done. There is too much regulation, too much control and for 99% of it, there is no basis in facts to define the "problem". Mental illness is treated in a very cavalier manner in this country. By watching what happened to a family member, I've become much more familiar with the treatment of those with all sorts of mental treatment problems than I ever wanted to be. It is pretty much a one size fits all - 12 step program that is applied to those with drug problems or are bi-polar. Those in it suffer a lot and most are cast aside by it. Rather than focusing on how people with mental problems can get guns, much more progress could be made if we focus on helping those with mental problems deal with those issues.

But the easy way out is to simply ignore the root cause and try one more way to insulate society from it. Even if it were possible to completely remove all possibility that the mentally impaired can have access to a gun (at the cost of denyng access to thousands of times more law abiding citizens in the process), those mentally ill with an intent on doing harm will simply use another method. Like this one.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bath_School_disaster

[mr surveyor]

no compromise

[jimlongley]

How about this. Let's look for a single example of a government regulation that remained where it started. I've never been able to find one, perhaps you will do better. Once a regulation sticks, there are more to follow and even more to follow that. Government regulators have no natural predators to control them. The jackals report that regulators don't even taste good.

but it may make the anti gun crowd then shut up for a while.

No it won't. The anti-gun crowd's goal is to completely disarm the American public. They well understand why that 2nd Amendment was put into place in the first place - to counter governmental tyranny. If you will notice, the ones who publicly push gun control are the same ones who push the UN Agenda 21 and other "world government" initiatives. That is NOT a coincidence.

Simple is "shall not be infringed." I agree with keeping it simple.

I suppose you're right, I like the other persons response about constitutional carry. I just thought it sounded simple enough and didn't infringe anymore on our rights, at the same time making a bit harder to get a gun, for people who didn't need to have one. I guess it's a good thing I'm not a politician. Just in conversation, something that seemed so simple, got picked apart in a few hours...I see why nothing ever gets done now.

The problem, in keeping with the other statements, is that the anti-rights nuts won't be satisfied with that one "simple" increment, if they would be then the GCA '68 would have taken care of it, but they have never been satisfied and never will be, so it's time to start incrementing the line back in the other direction.

[C-dub]

I suppose you're right, I like the other persons response about constitutional carry. I just thought it sounded simple enough and didn't infringe anymore on our rights, at the same time making a bit harder to get a gun, for people who didn't need to have one. I guess it's a good thing I'm not a politician. Just in conversation, something that seemed so simple, got picked apart in a few hours...I see why nothing ever gets done now.

I think that we are on very different sides of the spectrum. My view is that WAY TOO MUCH gets done. There is too much regulation, too much control and for 99% of it, there is no basis in facts to define the "problem". Mental illness is treated in a very cavalier manner in this country. By watching what happened to a family member, I've become much more familiar with the treatment of those with all sorts of mental treatment problems than I ever wanted to be. It is pretty much a one size fits all - 12 step program that is applied to those with drug problems or are bi-polar. Those in it suffer a lot and most are cast aside by it. Rather than focusing on how people with mental problems can get guns, much more progress could be made if we focus on helping those with mental problems deal with those issues.

But the easy way out is to simply ignore the root cause and try one more way to insulate society from it. Even if it were possible to completely remove all possibility that the mentally impaired can have access to a gun (at the cost of denyng access to thousands of times more law abiding citizens in the process), those mentally ill with an intent on doing harm will simply use another method. Like this one.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bath_School_disaster

I think that far more regulations are enacted by the different agencies, like the EPA and ATF, than congress.

[JALLEN]

Be careful of the mental health issue. I distrust that more than anything else, even politicians

We had a case here many years ago where a man was charged with a lengthy list of child sex acts, the description of which were too preposterous to imagine. The child psychiatrists at Child Protective Services here solemnly fell into line that this man was a monster, that all these kids at the church Sunday school had been abused in the most horrific and unimaginable ways over a long period of time.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faith_Chap ... abuse_case is an account that seems mild compared to what we were treated to in the tabloid sensationalism of the TV news and press here. They really made fools of themselves in all this.

I also acquired a firm distaste for, and distrust of, psychiatrists. In another matter I handled a real estate case involving two psychiatrists, married to each other, with a then 5 year old boy they had taught to be deathly afraid of automobiles. That was pertinent only because it was a driveway/easement case, and that was claimed to be a factor.

Psychiatrists drive me crazy!

[mr surveyor]

"I think that far more regulations are enacted by the different agencies, like the EPA and ATF, than congress."



yep, which to me is the same as official "executive orders"


where's the congressional oversite?

[G26ster]

I've spent the vast majority of my working life, until retirement, in an industry under federal regulation. All of the rules, restrictions, and requirements came through regulation, and congress had nothing to do with it. I believe that it will be the same in the weeks, months, and years to come for firearms. I worry far less about what congress will or won't do, than I do about what government bureaucrats will do.

[mr surveyor]

I've spent the vast majority of my working life, until retirement, in an industry under federal regulation. All of the rules, restrictions, and requirements came through regulation, and congress had nothing to do with it. I believe that it will be the same in the weeks, months, and years to come for firearms. I worry far less about what congress will or won't do, than I do about what government bureaucrats will do.

exactly my point

the executive branch inacting a form of legislation without representation

[JALLEN]

I've spent the vast majority of my working life, until retirement, in an industry under federal regulation. All of the rules, restrictions, and requirements came through regulation, and congress had nothing to do with it. I believe that it will be the same in the weeks, months, and years to come for firearms. I worry far less about what congress will or won't do, than I do about what government bureaucrats will do.

exactly my point

the executive branch inacting a form of legislation without representation

I think you will find, upon further review, that each agency promulgates its regulations under specific statutory grants of authority approved by Congress. "The Secretary shall [to thus and so]", or 'such forms and details as the Secretary shall prescribe..." The Internal Revenue Code was passed by Congress. The Director of Internal Revenue drafts and publishes the Regulations which execute the statutory provisions. Each agency has similar grants of authority to regulate, DEA, FCC, HEW, HHS, DOJ etc.

[Hector]

I think if there was a required aptitude test, or competency screening, before you were allowed to purchase firearm, along with a mental health database that could be checked...I would agree to that.

Let's do it for voting first. After 5 years, if it's working with no problems, we can talk about guns.

[jdhz28]

I think if there was a required aptitude test, or competency screening, before you were allowed to purchase firearm, along with a mental health database that could be checked...I would agree to that.

Let's do it for voting first. After 5 years, if it's working with no problems, we can talk about guns.

I'll have you know, when I read your comment I spit my drink all over my laptop!...that was great. Too bad that wouldn't pass muster either.