Armed Teachers: Thinking Outside the Box

[fickman]

Ideally, everybody with a CHL could carry in any school. We know that in the cities and suburbs, this is a major uphill battle and we're unlikely to see it any time soon.

The post I quoted today is from another thread that is touching this topic. It shows a current teacher's defeated perspective that - without legislative preemption - even allowing CHLs on campuses would be futile, as many districts would still have employment policies against the practice.

In the meantime, a lot of people have been advocating for 1 or more officers be placed at every school campus in the US. The drawbacks to this are numerous: cost, most schools are massive and one officer is simply insufficient, the officer would be a clear target to an outsider, etc.

So, I've been trying to think of a way to steer this conversation, and something struck me. I'm surrounded by school teachers in my family. . . from elementary level, middle school, high school, and college. They're ALWAYS taking continuing education. They get certified in special ed, English as a second language, certain teaching techniques, etc. The schools find budget for this education and view it as important. . . it's a requirement to maintain their certification.

Then it hit me:
Why not allow teachers, administrators, coaches, custodians, etc. to get continuing education and become commissioned law enforcement officers?!

There are a lot of community colleges that offer the program - many with night, weekend, or summer classes available. The tuition for the academy could be funded by the school district or a combination of district / local PD. The interested staff would voluntarily sign up with a target number per campus. Participants would receive a stipend similar to coaches, band directors, and the other extra-curricular activities many teachers receive extra pay for.

The local PD could maintain their commission. The teacher would still be primarily a teacher, but with significant cross training. . . like the safety officers who are both LEOs and paramedics. (This could be a nice little income boost during the summer, too, if they picked up shifts or even did administrative work at the PD during the summer.)

I want to reassert that opening the campuses to lawful CHL carry is ideal, but apart from that, this idea sounds MUCH more practical than putting an officer at every campus who is there only for security.

Some other pros:
- An outsider wouldn't know who the LEO-teachers were, how many there were, or where to find them.
- The LEO-teacher could probably open carry with a badge on the belt OR choose to conceal, but knowing that they were a real LEO wouldn't be as much of a distraction.
- The training cost and stipend would be MUCH cheaper than hiring dedicated LEOs.
- You could have multiple defensive firearms throughout the campus.
- If they wanted, maybe they could have tactical gear (vest, shield, etc.) locked in their classroom.

I am a Texas school teacher. The correct answer is #2. My school district prohibits any weapons on any school property if you are faculty or staff. So I can not carry in my car or I can be terminated immediately. Many districts have adopted this policy in the last few years. The gun is useless in the car anyways. By the time I ran out to the car got my gun and ran back the campus police would be at the school if they weren't there already, at least in my school district. Response times are very fast and the campus police practice often.

Of course 3 minutes is a lifetime in a situation like the one in Connecticut. Plus I couldn't leave the kids alone in the classroom and I would probably get shot by the officers responding if they saw me in the hallway with a firearm. It would be better if the teachers could carry and take up a defensive position in their classrooms behind locked doors while law enforcement sweeps the school for the shooter. Moving students out of the classroom in an active shooter situation is a bad idea, especially if they are little kids. They are hard to move fast and get frightened easily.

Also even if they pass a law allowing chls in schools I still think most districts would have grounds for termination clauses in employee contracts. So maybe the parents will be able to get around it but I don't think the staff will. If anything they will hire more LEOs and beef up security. The education system has strict no gun policies.

[mamabearCali]

hmmmm....an idea worth some merit. would definitely need some tweaking and some thinking through, but certainly worth the thought.

[MeMelYup]

There is a president that works. Harold ISD. The different school boards need to get that information and build off of it.

[fickman]

There is a president that works. Harold ISD. The different school boards need to get that information and build off of it.

I agree that is a great model. But even they don't allow all CHLers to carry. . . he requires additional training for anybody who is allowed to carry. Not ideal, but palatable.

In the near term, however, we know that the urban and suburban districts aren't going to follow suit. The idea I proposed is interesting because it leaves them almost without an argument. . . if you can trust a full-time cop, you can trust a commissioned cop who happens to be a full time teacher.

Tarrant County College's police academy is $900 and 18 weeks. One of my family member's districts spent at least that this summer to send her to a 4-day technology conference in San Diego. . . and I think at least 4-5 teachers went. There are other part time courses, too.

I'm sure there's still some roadblocks.

I'd be interesting to have some teachers propose this to their districts and gauge the reaction.

[howdy]

There is already another precedent. It is called the Federal Flight Deck Officer program. The FFDO's are employed air line pilots that are deputized Federal Law Enforcement Officers. The airline companies CAN NOT deny one of its pilot FFDO employees from carrying on the airplane. Federal law prevents that. No Captain can restrict a FFDO from carrying in the Cockpit. This is not even up for discussion. The Pilots are all volunteers. If you don't want to carry a gun, don't apply. There are many hoops you have to jump through to get selected for training. There is no cost to the airline. The pilots have to have the time off to go to training and pays room and board while there. The Feds supply all equipment and training. (great school) FFDO's have a very limited job description and set of duties. It works very well. They are very well trained and required to shoot MUCH better than regular Federal LEO's or local police. The only people who know who is a FFDO is the immediate crew s(he) is working with and the base Chief Pilot.

I am not allowed to talk about the type of training , length, or the rules of engagement, but a program for Teachers could be crafted after the FFDO program and it would possibly cost the local taxpayers nothing. I am a retired Delta Pilot and former FFDO. I would not even write this if I was still an active FFDO.

[MeMelYup]

These are teachers not LEO’s. They should be the last line of defense, not hunters. They are there to protect and oversee the students, not run off and try to arrest a bad guy and leave scared children alone. You know how much trouble a scared child can get into in 5 minutes? What happens if the teacher is off trying to find the BG and another one walks into the unattended classroom? The results would be unthinkable and the teacher would be delinquent.
A teacher is not a police officer. If they wanted to be a LEO they would have gone to school and became one instead of a teacher. A teachers life is hard enough without the burden of being a LEO also.

[HenryV]

These are teachers not LEO’s. They should be the last line of defense, not hunters. They are there to protect and oversee the students, not run off and try to arrest a bad guy and leave scared children alone. You know how much trouble a scared child can get into in 5 minutes? What happens if the teacher is off trying to find the BG and another one walks into the unattended classroom? The results would be unthinkable and the teacher would be delinquent.
A teacher is not a police officer. If they wanted to be a LEO they would have gone to school and became one instead of a teacher. A teachers life is hard enough without the burden of being a LEO also.

I'm going to have to agree with this. Imagine the "average" teacher. All they want to do is teach kids, educate them, love and care for them, make lesson plans, grade papers, hang motivational posters in their rooms, etc. They work long hours to get lessons ready and grade papers. Sometimes, they take their work home with them. Some of them teach more than one subject, coach athletics, coach academics, sponsor a club or two, attend graduate school so they can become a principal or counselor. They enforce, but they enforce school rules. Anything that breaks the law is handled by the school resource office or the local police.

Think about this... would we want a police officer teaching kids calculus?

[chasfm11]

These are teachers not LEO’s. They should be the last line of defense, not hunters. They are there to protect and oversee the students, not run off and try to arrest a bad guy and leave scared children alone. You know how much trouble a scared child can get into in 5 minutes? What happens if the teacher is off trying to find the BG and another one walks into the unattended classroom? The results would be unthinkable and the teacher would be delinquent.
A teacher is not a police officer. If they wanted to be a LEO they would have gone to school and became one instead of a teacher. A teachers life is hard enough without the burden of being a LEO also.

I'm going to have to agree with this. Imagine the "average" teacher. All they want to do is teach kids, educate them, love and care for them, make lesson plans, grade papers, hang motivational posters in their rooms, etc. They work long hours to get lessons ready and grade papers. Sometimes, they take their work home with them. Some of them teach more than one subject, coach athletics, coach academics, sponsor a club or two, attend graduate school so they can become a principal or counselor. They enforce, but they enforce school rules. Anything that breaks the law is handled by the school resource office or the local police.

Think about this... would we want a police officer teaching kids calculus?

Let me take a different view. How many teachers already have their CHL? If you simply said "all teachers with CHLs can carry" and you made that public, you have instantly dispatched the "gun free school" problem. Suppose that only 100 teachers in the whole State of Texas carried. The problem is that the BGs wouldn't know which school and which teacher.

The dilemma is how to get passed the anti-parents. You would need some sort of an announcement so that the BGs would understand that schools were no longer a target rich environment. Given the wailing and knashing of teeth that goes on with a lot of the Lib parents at the schools already, I'm not sure how this part would go.

So I'm not advocating enlisting anyone for anything. I'm just saying that teachers would no longer be stripped of their 2nd amendment rights because they are teachers. I suspect that, like the schools in Israel, the problem would solve itself.

[howdy]

These are teachers not LEO’s. They should be the last line of defense, not hunters. They are there to protect and oversee the students, not run off and try to arrest a bad guy and leave scared children alone. You know how much trouble a scared child can get into in 5 minutes? What happens if the teacher is off trying to find the BG and another one walks into the unattended classroom? The results would be unthinkable and the teacher would be delinquent.
A teacher is not a police officer. If they wanted to be a LEO they would have gone to school and became one instead of a teacher. A teachers life is hard enough without the burden of being a LEO also.

This is the same argument used to try and prevent Pilots from carrying....they need to fly the plane instead of shoot bad guys. Well I tell you, if someone is in the cockpit trying to kill me, it will be kind of difficult to fly the plane.

There will be lots of rules. Their gun will be to protect their students and nothing else. They hunker down with their kids and only engage if the BG comes in THEIR room. They, like Pilots are the LAST line of defense. Passengers thump their chest and say no highjackers will ever take over an airplane again. When you learn the scenarios the BG's are going to use, it will send chills up your spine. It can happen again and it probably will happen again in schools. Columbine had a Police Officer in the building, and he "fell back to get help". The high schools here in Katy (all 5A) are like shopping malls. They are huge with 3000+ students each spread out over several buildings with multiple entrances. Metal detectors are NOT an option. Just too many different buildings. The Jr. Highs are almost as large and the elementaries have 1000+ students. We have 57 different campuses. The Katy ISD Police Dept can't possibly guard all these campuses without adding many new officers and then the word "guard" is misleading.

My Daughter is a 1st grade Teacher in Katy and she is defenseless right now. She and her students are just targets. She has had her CHL for years and is every bit as smart and stable as any Police Officer. It takes more qualifications to be a Teacher than it does a Police Officer. I want her protected NOW, not after the politicians debate this into the ground. She is trusted? by the State to carry her handgun around kids all the time...just not in school.

[HenryV]

The high schools here in Katy (all 5A) are like shopping malls. They are huge with 3000+ students each spread out over several buildings with multiple entrances. Metal detectors are NOT an option. Just too many different buildings. The Jr. Highs are almost as large and the elementaries have 1000+ students. We have 57 different campuses. The Katy ISD Police Dept can't possibly guard all these campuses without adding many new officers and then the word "guard" is misleading.

I've visited Katy ISD's high schools (namely Seven Lakes and Cinco Ranch), and they are HUGE compared to where I am. The junior highs and elementary schools are massive, too. When I was visiting, I looked at the area and it's typical suburbia. You wouldn't think any crime could happen. Would the parents be okay with having armed teachers in the classroom? Would that disrupt their idea of the perfect school and perfect neighborhood? Schools in that area seem so safe. How do we get parents like those behind the idea of having armed teachers in the school? That's really what I'm trying to get at.

[howdy]

These are teachers not LEO’s. They should be the last line of defense, not hunters. They are there to protect and oversee the students, not run off and try to arrest a bad guy and leave scared children alone. You know how much trouble a scared child can get into in 5 minutes? What happens if the teacher is off trying to find the BG and another one walks into the unattended classroom? The results would be unthinkable and the teacher would be delinquent.
A teacher is not a police officer. If they wanted to be a LEO they would have gone to school and became one instead of a teacher. A teachers life is hard enough without the burden of being a LEO also.

I'm going to have to agree with this. Imagine the "average" teacher. All they want to do is teach kids, educate them, love and care for them, make lesson plans, grade papers, hang motivational posters in their rooms, etc. They work long hours to get lessons ready and grade papers. Sometimes, they take their work home with them. Some of them teach more than one subject, coach athletics, coach academics, sponsor a club or two, attend graduate school so they can become a principal or counselor. They enforce, but they enforce school rules. Anything that breaks the law is handled by the school resource office or the local police.

Think about this... would we want a police officer teaching kids calculus?

I just find this difficult to read by people who take the responsibility for our own protection and then say that Teachers should just let the Police protect them. If you really believe the Police are the the solution to our protection, we can just turn in our CHL's and let them protect us. Teachers are everyday people. They want to live and protect their students. The majority of Texans put their trust in the Police to keep them safe. I am sure the majority of Teachers feel the same. BUT...we have a few sheepdogs (like the members of this forum) who feel differently and I know many Teachers who are sheepdogs.

[HenryV]

I just find this difficult to read by people who take the responsibility for our own protection and then say that Teachers should just let the Police protect them. If you really believe the Police are the the solution to our protection, we can just turn in our CHL's and let them protect us. Teachers are everyday people. They want to live and protect their students. The majority of Texans put their trust in the Police to keep them safe. I am sure the majority of Teachers feel the same. BUT...we have a few sheepdogs (like the members of this forum) who feel differently and I know many Teachers who are sheepdogs.

Don't get me wrong: I'm not relying on just one entity for protection. I am going to protect myself and others if and when necessary.

As of right now, I wouldn't trust a majority of teachers in my building with a firearm. Most of them were not in the military. Most of them do not own a firearm (this is fact, not made up). Most of them I wouldn't trust with a potato gun. I would be concerned about them in a hostile situation and how they would react under the conditions. Would they get a shot off? Would they miss? Would it hit someone or something?

[howdy]

I just find this difficult to read by people who take the responsibility for our own protection and then say that Teachers should just let the Police protect them. If you really believe the Police are the the solution to our protection, we can just turn in our CHL's and let them protect us. Teachers are everyday people. They want to live and protect their students. The majority of Texans put their trust in the Police to keep them safe. I am sure the majority of Teachers feel the same. BUT...we have a few sheepdogs (like the members of this forum) who feel differently and I know many Teachers who are sheepdogs.

Don't get me wrong: I'm not relying on just one entity for protection. I am going to protect myself and others if and when necessary.

As of right now, I wouldn't trust a majority of teachers in my building with a firearm. Most of them were not in the military. Most of them do not own a firearm (this is fact, not made up). Most of them I wouldn't trust with a potato gun. I would be concerned about them in a hostile situation and how they would react under the conditions. Would they get a shot off? Would they miss? Would it hit someone or something?

But you want the Teachers to rely on one entity. This sounds like the doom sayers about CHL people in general. "Most the people I know I wouldn't trust with a gun...I would be concerned that they wouldn't know how to react in a stressfull situation...would they miss...would they hit someone else"

So now we are more concerned with the Teacher than we are with the bad guy. The BG is in there slaughtering children and we are more concerned with the Teacher who might miss or shoot someone else. Police (according to the FBI) have a 18% first time hit rate. The New York Police recently shot 9 innocent bystanders. Most Police were not in the Military. Most (I'm guessing) CHL holder were not in the military. Most military members were not front line rifle toters. (I was a Marine) Most (this is not made up) new Federal LEO's have never fired a gun prior to training. The Teachers in New Town read nursery rhymes to their students to keep them calm while the slaughter was going on. They gathered their kids up and some died trying to protect their babies. I think they remained incredibly focused and some, not all, would have maybe ended this massacre long before the BG killed himself. Is there anyone else that wishes there had been one other person in that school with a gun? I retired 8 years ago as a Pilot for Delta. I became a 911 Paramedic and I have run many years in the Katy area. I can assure you. This is not the safe area everyone believes it is. It is full of drugs, psychos, and mean people. It is very much like New Town. Plenty of money for toys and in some cases very little parental supervision.

[HenryV]

But you want the Teachers to rely on one entity. This sounds like the doom sayers about CHL people in general. "Most the people I know I wouldn't trust with a gun...I would be concerned that they wouldn't know how to react in a stressfull situation...would they miss...would they hit someone else"

So now we are more concerned with the Teacher than we are with the bad guy. The BG is in there slaughtering children and we are more concerned with the Teacher who might miss or shoot someone else. Police (according to the FBI) have a 18% first time hit rate. The New York Police recently shot 9 innocent bystanders. Most Police were not in the Military. Most (I'm guessing) CHL holder were not in the military. Most military members were not front line rifle toters. (I was a Marine) Most (this is not made up) new Federal LEO's have never fired a gun prior to training. The Teachers in New Town read nursery rhymes to their students to keep them calm while the slaughter was going on. They gathered their kids up and some died trying to protect their babies. I think they remained incredibly focused and some, not all, would have maybe ended this massacre long before the BG killed himself. Is there anyone else that wishes there had been one other person in that school with a gun? I retired 8 years ago as a Pilot for Delta. I became a 911 Paramedic and I have run many years in the Katy area. I can assure you. This is not the safe area everyone believes it is. It is full of drugs, psychos, and mean people. It is very much like New Town. Plenty of money for toys and in some cases very little parental supervision.

I am concerned about the teachers. I'm also concerned about the BG. I'm also concerned about the children. Lots to be concerned about! But, I can promise you, I do not want to rely on one single entity for anything. I believe in the saying, "if you want it done right, do it yourself."

Teachers do have to watch out for themselves. Education used to be about the teacher being right all the time. Nowadays, the teacher is wrong and the students & parents are right. It's always the teachers fault for not following this procedure or doing that procedure. This doesn't happen all the time, but it does happen. Someone is always to blame, and it's usually the teacher; the student is the "victim."

Just to let you know my stand on the issue, I've asked my district if I could CC into my school. I was shot down (no pun intended) each time. I've spent a lot of time researching stories, data, reasoning, etc. Harrold ISD was a big focal point for me. It's a frustrating, uphill battle. I hate having to use such a tragedy as leverage and as an example, but times are changing.

[jmra]

There is a president that works. Harold ISD. The different school boards need to get that information and build off of it.

I agree that is a great model. But even they don't allow all CHLers to carry. . . he requires additional training for anybody who is allowed to carry. Not ideal, but palatable.

In the near term, however, we know that the urban and suburban districts aren't going to follow suit. The idea I proposed is interesting because it leaves them almost without an argument. . . if you can trust a full-time cop, you can trust a commissioned cop who happens to be a full time teacher.

Tarrant County College's police academy is $900 and 18 weeks. One of my family member's districts spent at least that this summer to send her to a 4-day technology conference in San Diego. . . and I think at least 4-5 teachers went. There are other part time courses, too.

I'm sure there's still some roadblocks.

I'd be interesting to have some teachers propose this to their districts and gauge the reaction.

$900 is just the cost of tuition.
"The overall cost for students to complete the Basic Peace Officer Academy is within the range of $2,200 to $3,500."
Overall Costs for Students (last paragraph on the page)

The classes are only offered during the day and are 18 weeks long.

"Monday through Friday
8 a.m. – 5 p.m.
18 weeks
696 hours

January 14 – May 17
March 25 – July 25
May – September
July – November"
Times and Dates

Our break is only 10 weeks which means even doing the class over the summer I would still miss 2 months of school. I don't see any ISD eating the total costs associated with the class or eating the 2 months out of the classroom.