Can America Handle the truth?

[SewTexas]

My random thoughts on these various topics:
snip

-Why is it that so many folks seem to think that abortion is a black and white issue? First, there are far too many of these procedures. Some use it in lieu of protection or abstinence. The health of the mother is a vital issue and seems to be often overlooked. Yes, there are medical reasons for abortion. Legitimate reasons. Reasons that should be a matter between a woman, her doctor, and her g-d. There are Biblical references and Talmudic laws that cover this. What I fail to understand is that the same people who speak of freedom from government seem to be the first to support government legislation that would prohibit abortion of any kind, for any purpose.

Despite the things I disagree with you on, this is a fair assessment. While I see the occasional MEDICAL NECESSITY for this, I just wished the Democrat Party would abide by their cute little phrase "Safe, legal, and RARE", but they don't. They want it to be safe (enough), all-but-glorified, and commonplace...and they want the taxpayers to pay for it.

when the pro-abortionists admit and begin to counsel their patients that abortions can and do lead to breast cancer, then and only then will anyone be able to have a real conversation about abortion with them. They know it's destroying a child, they don't care, what they don't admit to, it's potentially destroying a woman, several times, several ways, throughout her life.

[gdanaher]

Abortion should be rare. Critical health of the mother is a fundamental reason. This is not political--it has for me a religious basis. Secondly, abortion should be an option for pregnancy resulting from rape and incest. Still, rare. Thirdly, better services and simplified laws directed toward adoptions. I have two adopted children, and believe me it isn't cheap, and there are far too many hoops. Simplified adoption rules would relieve the pressure for unwilling mothers to surrender their children rather than raise them in a hostile environment, hence fewer casual abortions. The Republican party made this issue a make or break plank this year and very likely cost a lot of Romney votes.

[Rex B]

When i started this thread 6 pages back, I had no idea it would generate this much discussion.
I was especially surprised at the first few responses, virulently denouncing the message in the link.

It's pretty obvious to me that our nation has been taken over by liars, cheats, and thugs who do not have the good of the country foremost.
I thought the editorial was the most complete list of "issues" I had seen.

And yes, I believe our president is illegitimate to the office. there are WAY too many unanswered questions about his past.
Shame on us for letting them get by with it.

Not sure how it got off onto abortion, but I'm am solidly against it.
It may be legal, but that's not the same as making the taxpayers foot the bill, or forcing a church to be a part of it, however small.
As for medical necessity, I am told by people in that profession that abortions required to save the life of the mother are almost non-existent today.

[mamabearCali]

Jollyman...I don't know how to respond to such a complement. Thank you ever so much.


gdanaher--I don't want "no gov't" I want "less gov't." I want to gov't to do it's job. The primary place of gov't is to protect God given rights, the first being the right to life. The life of both mother and child. There are situations where to save the mother a child dies. It is terrible, but I have a good friend that experienced that. Those exceptions can be easily written into law without any trouble. When the mothers life is in danger you do all to save her and if the child dies...how terrible that is.

We have laws that say you cannot kill other people, however there are exceptions to that law. It is not that complex of an issue.

Be responsible and take precautions or be ready to be a parent. Or you could be righteous and abstain until you have found your lifelong mate thus improving significantly your and your childrens odds...but I don't expect our populace set up on instant gratification to go that route until they are forced into it.

[jollyman]

You are welcome mamabearCali, you are welcome.

[baldeagle]

Why is it that so many folks seem to think that abortion is a black and white issue? First, there are far too many of these procedures. Some use it in lieu of protection or abstinence. The health of the mother is a vital issue and seems to be often overlooked. Yes, there are medical reasons for abortion. Legitimate reasons. Reasons that should be a matter between a woman, her doctor, and her g-d. There are Biblical references and Talmudic laws that cover this. What I fail to understand is that the same people who speak of freedom from government seem to be the first to support government legislation that would prohibit abortion of any kind, for any purpose.

Why is it that people who speak of freedom from government insist on government punishing those who commit crimes? Perhaps it's because they're opposed to immorality? Abortion is immoral. If you don't believe it is, please explain the difference between killing a living being in the womb and killing a living being outside the womb. Why is it wrong to kill a baby after it's born but perfectly acceptable to kill it before it's born? What is the moral difference between the two?

[gdanaher]

"Why is it wrong to kill a baby after it's born but perfectly acceptable to kill it before it's born? What is the moral difference between the two?"

Because in some rare circumstances, the life of the mother is at immediate risk. Once the child is born and the mother has survived, the risk no longer exists to the mother. I strongly object to those who would use abortion as a form of birth control. This violates moral and religious principles. No excuses for those who practice this. The Republican party platform includes a plank that forbids abortion under any circumstances. No gray areas. This too is wrong. It may not offend you, but it certainly affects enough people that they didn't vote for the party standard bearer.

[MeMelYup]

If you think abortion is wrong, the only type of birth control acceptable would be abstinence.

[VMI77]

Here we go again....

EDIT:

Abortions are not for everyone. You have a choice...yes or no. It's not my place to judge.

'nuff said...

No, it is not "Nuff said". There is a sense in several of these posts that social issues like abortion need to fall by the wayside and we should focus solely on the fiscal issues. If the GOP does that they are throwing out a huge section of their base and for what? To be democrat-lite? Like I said before, do those who are proposing this think that there are enough people who are fiscally conservative (but so socially liberal that they set that aside to vote for Obama) that it would make up for all of us who are conservative on social issues? Do you think there are enough votes that the GOP can afford to completely alienate the base of the party (because I can assure you that I do vote on social issues too!)?


Edited to add.....all it takes for evil to win is for good people to stand silent.

The GOP already is democrat-lite, and already has abandoned it's base. Do you really think Romney was the best of all Republican candidates to run for President against The One? The party organization torpedoed every candidate that wasn't democrat-lite, even breaking the law in some cases. Though I'm not inclined to think so myself, someone could probably make a pretty convincing case that choosing Romney was a deliberate act to lose the election. After all, Romney was a man that was able to be elected in one of the most socialist left-wing states in the country, so just how much of a representative could he be for the base you're speaking of? How many of the base were voting FOR Romney as opposed to AGAINST Obama?

And I would say that it's not so much that good people are standing silent, but that good people have been silenced and banished from elective government, especially at the Federal level. Where do you see the media giving a voice to good people? Anyone on the national stage who expresses values like most of us here espouse is under media blackout. The voices of good people, for the most part, are only heard over the internet --and I'd expect TPTB to do something about that in the not too distant future because it is right now about the only obstacle to imposing their will on all of us.

[VMI77]

You vote for whomsoever you want to, however I have to stand before a holy God someday. I cannot and will not stand before him and say "sorry I thought the deficit was more important than the lives of children".

I'm intrigued by this comment. There are children dying, particularly in third world countries, because they don't have clean water, enough food, vaccinations and other medical care. Is cable television or Internet access more important than their lives? A nice house and car? Toys for you kids instead of life for others?

I personally hold myself responsible only for my own actions. I don't feel responsible for bad parents who have children without being able to support and care for their children. I also don't feel responsible if someone chooses to have an abortion. So my views are consistent but I puzzle over how others draw the line about which innocent lives are worth more than money/possessions and which ones aren't.

This goes to the you can't save every kitten in the world. I do what I can with what I have. Our family does what it can for the poor around the world (various charities we partner with). I cannot be responsible for the insanity and corruption of other nations (what causes most human suffering). However in this country the citizens do have a say in what is permitted, I will not vote for a person who does not value human life.

You have just made the case for world government. The Progressives have taken over the US on exactly that argument - taking care of the poor. Let's review how good of a job they have done in the ensuing 100 years, especially in places like Detroit. No matter. The argument is that you and I will not try to do enough to help all of those starving poor so they must muster the power of government to fill the gap that our "disinterest" creates.

By the way, you have given up all say in what your government does because your side lost the election. Complete capitulation is required. If they had chariots, they would tie us all together and drag us through the streets of Washington to demonstrate their triumph, in true Roman fashion.

That's the least of what they'd do if they thought they could get away with it. If you read the comments by the Obama crowd on various blogs and after certain news articles, many of them are not just smug about the election, but talk about fundamental changes and the elimination of people who voted for Romney, who, obviously, are all racists --especially anyone espousing the values of the Tea Party. We're all self-serving bigots who have no place in their new "tolerant" and "virtuous" society.

[VMI77]

No, but it is not a federal issue. As far as I know there are no federal laws for or against abortion or that even regulate abortions. Those are state issues and laws and when someone takes the new evidence all the way to the SCOTUS and they may reverse or limit the previous ruling if they agree to see the case.

Let me refer you to the HHS mandate which requires businesses even those run by staunch Christians to pay for abortifacients. So there are federal laws mandating that employers play for employees abortifacient drugs.

Roe V wade is a federal case that permitted abortion nationwide when before it was decided state by state. So at the moment it is a federal issue. It would seem to me to be a step forward to return the decision to the people.

It's in the courts right now....Hobby Lobby versus the Obama Marxists.

[baldeagle]

If you think abortion is wrong, the only type of birth control acceptable would be abstinence.

That makes absolutely no sense.

[gdanaher]

+1

[VMI77]

If you think abortion is wrong, the only type of birth control acceptable would be abstinence.

That makes absolutely no sense.

It makes partial sense. He's talking about drugs like the pill because they detach a fertilized egg from the uterus, or prevent implantation of a fertilized egg. Things like diaphragms and condoms would still be OK, if you're not Catholic, because they prevent fertilization.

[Superman]

As for medical necessity, I am told by people in that profession that abortions required to save the life of the mother are almost non-existent today.

Look up ectopic pregnancy. Linky