Can America Handle the truth?

[Texas Dan Mosby]

The answer is no.

America can't handle "the truth".

About a great many subjects.

As firearm owners and CHL's who have seen and read so much propaganda associated with gun hatred, we've known this for.....well, FOREVER.

[mamabearCali]

No, we can't always stop people from doing evil, but we should not approve of it in any way shape or form. We cannot stop people from abusing their children either, but we have not made it legal to do that either. We cannot stop people from consorting with prostitutes, but we have not made that legal either. We cannot stop people from doing many bad things, but just because we cannot always keep them from doing evil does not mean we should call evil just that.

[C-dub]

Why can't we just stick to the issues anymore? Why all this birther stuff? Enough already...

You mean like you're a racist if you vote against Obama? You're a homophobe if you oppose gay marriage? You're a sexist pig if you oppose abortion? You're a right wing bigot if you don't think Catholics should be forced to provide contraception and abortion against their religious beliefs? Those kinds of issues?

That's just garbage argument to distract from the issues causing America's decline, IMO. The people who lob those attacks are the same ones who don't understand GDP, Debt Ceilings, Inflation, etc.

We have two good friends who are very intelligent. They can see the fiscal decline, the rapid growth of the Federal government and the decline of our Constitutional rights. But they voted for Obama. Why? Because everything they do is based on the litmus test of abortion. They are pro-choice and would never vote for anyone who wasn't publicly pro-choice. There is no reasoning with them. They loved the Ryan financial plans but won't vote for him because he had the audacity to state his personal belief about being pro-life. They are Jewish and are very concerned about our current governmental support of Israel. Even that wasn't enough to sway them. All the anti-Semetic direction doesn't seem that important to them, compared to abortion. They don't want to argue any points other than a woman's right to do as she will with her own body. The majority of their friends feel the same way.

If those of us who want a smaller Federal government keep getting sucked into the morality arguments, we are going to continue to loose Federal level elections. It seems just that simple.

Is your friends' position on abortion that a woman should have the right to have an abortion whenever she wants? If not, then even they have limits. It's just a matter of negotiating those limits, since a woman's right to have an abortion will never go away.

It's not the obamaphone people that are the problem with this country, well a little, but it is people like Chasfm11's friends. They are recognized as intelligent and disagree with the current administration's position on several things, but continue to be distracted by things that are really non-issues and make their choice based on those non-issues. There are a lot of intelligent people that were fooled four years ago and some of them were fooled again earlier this month. I don't know what it will take for those folks to snap out of it.

[talltex]

I understand what y'all are saying, but social issues count big time for me. If one does not have the right to life--what good are liberty and pursuit of happiness.

Then you need to find about 60 million of your closest friends who are going to vote with you based on the social issues. As long as we continue to try to legislate morality, we are going to keep the fiercely divided country that we have. The slippery slope that the Federal government jumped on when it started social engineering is exactly why we are where we are today. If we had a lot less Federal government tinkering with society and with our economy, people could decide their social issues for themselves, not have them mandated.

You vote for whomsoever you want to, however I have to stand before a holy God someday. I cannot and will not stand before him and say "sorry I thought the deficit was more important than the lives of children".

We can and we do legislate morality all the time. We say "you can't murder people" we say "you can't steal from people" we even say "you can't damage your body with drugs", in some states we say "you can't buy Alcohol on sunday". It is simply incorrect to say "we can't legislate morality, we can and we do everyday.

The examples of murder, theft, illegal drugs and so forth, while moral issues, have laws in effect making them illegal. Some of the previous laws making all alcohol illegal and/or banning sales of alcohol and of MANY non alcohol related items on Sunday (referred to as "blue laws") have been overturned in the past by the will of the people because the majority did not agree with them. The SCOTUS ruled on the legality of abortion long ago...it is the law of the land and has been so through several conservative adminstrations as well as liberal ones. The majority of the population is in favor of pro-choice or the law would have already been overturned. You have every right to vote your personal beliefs and support candidates who oppose that viewpoint, but as chasfm11 points out, you can no longer win a national election if you make that the litmus test for supporting a candidate. It really is that simple, because the math is simple...less than 49% of the people want the government to make that choice for them.

[mamabearCali]

The examples of murder, theft, illegal drugs and so forth, while moral issues, have laws in effect making them illegal. Some of the previous laws making all alcohol illegal and/or banning sales of alcohol and of MANY non alcohol related items on Sunday (referred to as "blue laws") have been overturned in the past by the will of the people because the majority did not agree with them. The SCOTUS ruled on the legality of abortion long ago...it is the law of the land and has been so through several conservative adminstrations as well as liberal ones. The majority of the population is in favor of pro-choice or the law would have already been overturned. You have every right to vote your personal beliefs and support candidates who oppose that viewpoint, but as chasfm11 points out, you can no longer win a national election if you make that the litmus test for supporting a candidate. It really is that simple, because the math is simple...less than 49% of the people want the government to make that choice for them.

Let me make this clear. This is a hill I die on. If it loses elections so be it.

The people did not decide this, five people in black robes found in the "penumbras and emanations" the right for a mother to murder her child. Many states have passed as many restrictions as they can on this issue. This is far from a settled issue. But let's say it was. If the majority of the population was in favor of murdering all blue-eyed babies would that make it ok? There was a time when slavery was the settled law of the land and it was ok to buy and sell people. Just because the majority of people are ok with something does not make it right. It does not make the struggle against it futile.

The math on our side is also simple 54,000,000 + children murdered since 1973 in the USA alone. We shake our fist at the nazis and the communists for murdering less.

If the Republican Party wants to really lose every election go ahead, become democrat lite....but be prepared to lose 1/2 of their constituency. Do you really think there are that many people thar will come running to the GOP if they set up planned parenthood GOP style? Do you think that those women who want the govt to be "their baby's daddy" will come running to the GOP if they cave on abortion? If y'all think that will help the GOP go right ahead. However I think to do so will cut out the very heart and soul of the GOP and all they will get in return is contempt from those they wish to court.

[baldeagle]

If y'all think that will help the GOP go right ahead. However I think to do so will cut out the very heart and soul of the GOP and all they will get in return is contempt from those they wish to court.

There are many of us already who have nothing but contempt for the party of squishyness and cowardice.

If anyone thinks this election was lost because of abortion, I'd like to see the proof of that. I seriously doubt abortion was the issue that won the day.

[C-dub]

If y'all think that will help the GOP go right ahead. However I think to do so will cut out the very heart and soul of the GOP and all they will get in return is contempt from those they wish to court.

There are many of us already who have nothing but contempt for the party of squishyness and cowardice.

If anyone thinks this election was lost because of abortion, I'd like to see the proof of that. I seriously doubt abortion was the issue that won the day.

It was one of the distractions that caused many people to be fooled into thinking it was a real issue.

[mamabearCali]

It was one of the distractions that caused many people to be fooled into thinking it was a real issue.

I doubt it. There are many reasons we lost. The first being simple...everyone loves free stuff as long as you are not the one paying for the gravy train. Obama promised different constituents different gifts, now whether he can deliver or not is something else. I think a second reason we lost is the MSM constant adoring praise if the anointed one, and constant unflattering, most of the time unfair coverage of Romney. A third reason is that Obama is a personality cult, people I know who are every bit conservative as I literally closed their eyes, covered their ears and refused to believe what was plain before them. Finally I do think there was some election fraud, now whether it was enough to tip the balance, I don't know. But we will never find out because Holder is the AG.

[C-dub]

It was one of the distractions that caused many people to be fooled into thinking it was a real issue.

I doubt it. There are many reasons we lost. The first being simple...everyone loves free stuff as long as you are not the one paying for the gravy train. Obama promised different constituents different gifts, now whether he can deliver or not is something else. I think a second reason we lost is the MSM constant adoring praise if the anointed one, and constant unflattering, most of the time unfair coverage of Romney. A third reason is that Obama is a personality cult, people I know who are every bit conservative as I literally closed their eyes, covered their ears and refused to believe what was plain before them. Finally I do think there was some election fraud, now whether it was enough to tip the balance, I don't know. But we will never find out because Holder is the AG.

Those are also reasons. Chasfm11's friends are not looking for free stuff. They were just plain hoodwinked, by the obamanation, his propaganda machine, and the MSM.

[mamabearCali]

Those are also reasons. Chasfm11's friends are not looking for free stuff. They were just plain hoodwinked, by the obamanation, his propaganda machine, and the MSM.

Like my in-laws and others. They let themselves be deceived refused to Search out for the truth and now we will all suffer. Small consolation to me and mine when I have to cut the grocery budget to pay for Obama care taxes and tax increases.

[Oldgringo]

Here we go again....

EDIT:

Abortions are not for everyone. You have a choice...yes or no. It's not my place to judge.

[stroo]

Gun control is also a social issue. And the Supreme Court recently held that there can be reasonable limits placed on our right to bear arms. So I guess if social issues are a problem, we need to give up on gun control also.

Like mamabear, abortion is a hill I will live and die on. We have killed 55 million of our own kids since abortion was made legal. Do you realize that is about as many people as Stalin killed and far more than Hitler killed.

One of the reasons Romney lost is because a bunch of people stayed home. I don't have any statistics but I expect they were evangelical Christians who didn't trust him on abortion and libertarians who didn't trust him on spending control. We need both of those groups to win. We can't win by blowing either one of them off.

[talltex]

Here we go again....

EDIT:

Abortions are not for everyone. You have a choice...yes or no. It's not my place to judge.

'nuff said...

[mamabearCali]

Here we go again....

EDIT:

Abortions are not for everyone. You have a choice...yes or no. It's not my place to judge.

'nuff said...

No, it is not "Nuff said". There is a sense in several of these posts that social issues like abortion need to fall by the wayside and we should focus solely on the fiscal issues. If the GOP does that they are throwing out a huge section of their base and for what? To be democrat-lite? Like I said before, do those who are proposing this think that there are enough people who are fiscally conservative (but so socially liberal that they set that aside to vote for Obama) that it would make up for all of us who are conservative on social issues? Do you think there are enough votes that the GOP can afford to completely alienate the base of the party (because I can assure you that I do vote on social issues too!)?


Edited to add.....all it takes for evil to win is for good people to stand silent.

[C-dub]

The problem, as I see it though, is that abortion is not or should not be an issue when it comes to presidential elections. It is not a federal issue. It is a state issue. Each state regulates abortions within their state and that has nothing to do with presidential elections.