2nd Amendment misunderstood?

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RPB
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Re: 2nd Amendment misunderstood?

#16

Post by RPB »

The problem is, most state governors (with the exception of Alaska and select units in other states, such as Texas) haven't called up the Unorganized Militia for combat training to make them "well-regulated" in 109 years.
That is not a problem at all. If one hasn't been needed, it's no problem.. Just like no one built an ark to house all the species of animals in case of flood lately ... no reason to. No problem.
For gun control advocates, this ensures that every person who is able to legally purchase, possess, and carry a modern battlefield weapon has been psychologically cleared (If you underwent marriage counseling/depressed over a divorce years ago ... ... forget passing ...)

Also, possession and carrying of battlefield/rare/exotic weapons by a non military, law enforcement, and/or state militia members should result in SEVERE, FEDERAL criminal penalties,

So, much like Mexico ... Only the elite select ones with the Government approval for weapons would be allowed
Grrr there goes part of the Renaissance Festival Costume Image




Once you graduate from this training (what if you don't pass? Some states make it too tough to pass ...) provided for by the state, you are issued a State Militia ID card, much like the Military ID card in my wallet right now. After the passage of this act, the point-of-purchase requirement, rather than a background check, and regardless of the location of the transaction (i.e. gun store, gun show, Wal Mart, or Uncle Ned's kitchen table) will be the presentation of a valid Militia ID, Military ID or law enforcement credentials from the firearms purchaser.

Wait ... Uncle Ned will turn in records on me buying a gun from him.... we don't need to turn that info in to government registration database record-keepers now ... What if Uncle Ned dies and leaves it to me ... do we turn in a copy of the will to the Gun registration database Dept? ... This bit won't get passed into legislation
Furthermore, it limits...
My response : "It Limits" sort of conflicts with "shall not be infringed" sooo What's the cost to taxpayers in Court cost going to be on this contradiction?

Requalification as a state militiaman should take place at least twice a year,
87 year old Great-Grandpa will run right down twice a year for re-qualification after getting someone to watch the farm a while so he can re-qualify and get government approval to own a gun

positive that this Act gives the pro-gun crowd is taxpayer-funded combat training,

Great-granpa needs that for when wild boar or rabid skunk fight back over a sheep ... and surely everyone will want to pay for his training with their tax money
My response : "shall not be infringed"
that's all the response needed imho
For advocates of the Second Amendment, this act allows nationwide public carriage of ALL battlefield-appropriate arms (machine guns, etc.) for militiamen
AGAIN
So, much like Mexico ... Only the elite select ones with the "Militiaman Government approval" for weapons would be allowed ... kinda sounds like infringement for the unapproved class of persons but allows army/FBI/National Guard/Coast Guard/government approved Militiamen/CIA/ to carry what they want where they want, but not the average citizen of this country a/k/a "The People"

Again, the 2A is about protection of individuals FROM a militia, so this is really an anti 2A proposal to the extent that it makes certain people government approved militiamen and grants them the right to exercise the right we all have, and denies the right to exercise the right to those not government approved to BE a militia.

WHAT ABOUT Some have no desire to belong to a militia (for whatever reason, RELIGION- conscientious objectors and the like or just not wanting more "leaders" however "unorganized" or "disorganized" the militia to which he/she "belonged" might be) are these forced to be "in the militia" in order to exercise the right they already have which no government gave them?

And ... WHAT ABOUT perhaps they are too old or feeble or physically disabled ... are these denied the ability to "be in the militia" in order to exercise the right they already have which no government gave them?
I see an Americans with Disabilities Act lawsuit here against the Militia who denies entry to the elderly feeble ones who don't "qualify" twice a year.

I am pro-2A, we already have the militia of a standing army as a necessary evil and I'm against forming more militias which are not necessary .. because I am pro-2A.

The only thing I see the proposed additional some are govt approved/ordained while others are rejected exclusive militia membership club doing is adding MORE restrictions/infringements upon the right the 2A was written to protect.... because it is supposed to protect individuals from the militia/government.
Yet it accepts some and rejects others ability to exercise the right to protect themselves from the government and the government-authorized militia decides who can protect themselves from Itself ... or not.

This is more oppressive than something like suing city hall under Tort Claims Act where you essentially must get permission from the city to sue the city ... (oversimplification for dramatic effect) ;-)

Mr. Government, will you approve me and gimme a militia membership card to get a weapon to protect myself from the government (you)?

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The problem is:

People forget that they have a right of self protection; no government gave them that right.
that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these ...
Some governments recognize the above right, as we did, and others pass laws restricting it, as we have let "them" do.
More laws won't fix it.
We have the right, we need to remind Government that we do, why we do, where it came from, and repeal laws which restricted it.
That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.
http://www.ushistory.org/declaration/document/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
but also that both sides could agree on.
Like I said; I'm glad you ostensibly wrote about the 2A, but your proposition wouldn't pass on either side the Anti-nor the Pro-2A people would go for it; antis wouldn't let militia people carry anti-tank weapons in the movies; Pro-2A wouldn't stand for even more limitations/infringements than we are already forced to accept.... I can't see the legislation passing to create such additional militias which you stated initially that we do not need (evidenced by the fact that ...
most state governors (with the exception of Alaska and select units in other states, such as Texas) haven't called up the Unorganized Militia for combat training to make them "well-regulated" in 109 years.
So, legislators on BOTH SIDES of the Aisle will say ...

Why build an ark we don't need and force taxpayers to pay for it in added training recordkeeping and associated costs?

Realistically, both sides will find reasons they won't like it.
That's why I say it won't happen.
I'm no lawyer

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45 4 life
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Re: 2nd Amendment misunderstood?

#17

Post by 45 4 life »

If we can just cut to the chase. The 2nd Amendment is not misunderstood by anyone. I honestly believe that the most far left of the left really understand what is written. The real issue is that everyone wants to interrupt it in such a manner that will allow them to fit it into their own agenda. Then we have someone like our Marine friend here ( By the way welcome and thanks for the service :tiphat: ) that just wants to tweak it a bit, take a little of this and a little of that, and make everyone happy. Nothing personnel, but you will never make everyone happy, and once you start the tweaking, you will never stop. We have Supreme Court Justices today that want to go back and revise the entire bill for a better fit into our new modern society. Give them an inch, and you better stand back.

Take it as it is written, believe in it, trust it, don't mess with it.
Don't Confuse the Issues With the Facts
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Jim Beaux
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Re: 2nd Amendment misunderstood?

#18

Post by Jim Beaux »

Shall not be infringed. The majority of Americans embrace the 2nd. At this point in time there is little reason to offer any kind of compromise. Give em an inch &........

Welcome Marine
“In the world of lies, truth-telling is a hanging offense"
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Kythas
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Re: 2nd Amendment misunderstood?

#19

Post by Kythas »

One thing that seems not to have been addressed in this thread regarding the militia (and forgive me if it has, I only skimmed over the links) is that all males from the age of 17-45 are already in the militia, according to US law.

We do have a militia, and the majority of us are in it. Most people just don't know this.
10 USC § 311 - MILITIA: COMPOSITION AND CLASSES
(a) The militia of the United States consists of all able-bodied males at least 17 years of age and, except as provided in section 313 of title 32, under 45 years of age who are, or who have made a declaration of intention to become, citizens of the United States and of female citizens of the United States who are members of the National Guard.
(b) The classes of the militia are—
(1) the organized militia, which consists of the National Guard and the Naval Militia; and
(2) the unorganized militia, which consists of the members of the militia who are not members of the National Guard or the Naval Militia.
“I’m all in favor of keeping dangerous weapons out of the hands of fools. Let’s start with typewriters.” - Frank Lloyd Wright

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terryg
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Re: 2nd Amendment misunderstood?

#20

Post by terryg »

Semper Fi Marine, and welcome!!

That is commendable and profound thinking on a topic that I was not even remotely versed in 20 years ago when I served in our fine Corps. :patriot:

If nothing else, I think it would serve as an educational campaign to remind people that, in the end, we are all responsible for our liberty and security.
... this space intentionally left blank ...

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Rex B
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Re: 2nd Amendment misunderstood?

#21

Post by Rex B »

Jim Beaux wrote:Shall not be infringed. The majority of Americans embrace the 2nd. At this point in time there is little reason to offer any kind of compromise. Give em an inch &.....
Actually, all the thousands of restrictive gun law are each an unconstitutional infringement.
That inch turned into feet, then yards.....
Josh's proposal rectifies that in a way that could be palatable to te iberals
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atticus
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Re: 2nd Amendment misunderstood?

#22

Post by atticus »

The various rights we have as individuals have some important interplay. For example, even if we have a 2nd amendment right to keep and bear arms, what's to keep the government from coming into your home and just taking them? Yes, the 2nd amendment sets forth the individual right, but the 4th amendment provides: "The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated . . . " The Constitution sets out checks, balances, restraints, and limited powers granted the feds. Yet we are still very much dependent upon the good faith of the feds to keep their oaths to uphold the Constitution. Very unfortunately, we have an oath breaker in the White House, followed by minions of toads in his administration.

RPB
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Re: 2nd Amendment misunderstood?

#23

Post by RPB »

Rex B wrote:
Jim Beaux wrote:Shall not be infringed. The majority of Americans embrace the 2nd. At this point in time there is little reason to offer any kind of compromise. Give em an inch &.....
Actually, all the thousands of restrictive gun law are each an unconstitutional infringement.
That inch turned into feet, then yards.....
Josh's proposal rectifies that in a way that could be palatable to te iberals
Texas has no gun registration and no reporting of private sales/gifts etc.
Texas has no "gun show loophole" or "Uncle Ned Christmas Gift unreported Loophole" to close ... we have a "freedom" to sell or give a used dishwasher or pair of shoes to another individual without reporting to Mommy and Daddy Government.
Some States are not free and people must ask permission to use the latrine or exercise other basic rights...
Yes, his plan to institute Federal/State reporting private sales and registration I'm sure Liberals would love
They are already trying to close some supposed "gun show loophole" and find out what Uncle Ned gives kids for birthdays. History shows that registration can lead to confiscation ... I know that his plan may give some non-free States like New York more freedom, but it only adds more gun restriction laws to others like Texas/Virginia/...

I commend the author for good "out-of-the-box thinking" for changing a more restrictive "NON-FREE-State's" laws.... but less restricted States won't be wanting to add more restrictions to pacify Bloomberg and those sorts. Most of Australia curses "that Brady Lady who flew down here and helped wreck the Country" while they try to repair the damage done.... So now they can get and keep guns again with Govt Permission and fees paid but must store them certain places and ways and ... regulations still abound which inhibit the right to life, liberty ...
Non-free States should start self-repairs rather than ask free States to sacrifice freedoms so the non-free States can buy a little more freedom ... they got themselves into the mess.

NON-free States are welcome to change the STATE laws in those Non-free States to some they want; leave Texas Freedoms alone, don't try having FEDS run the STATE (You'll regret it later) ... I really don't want to give up more freedoms so those who gave away even MORE freedoms can get a tiny bit basck of what they gave away.
Last edited by RPB on Sat Aug 04, 2012 9:39 am, edited 5 times in total.
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gdanaher
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Re: 2nd Amendment misunderstood?

#24

Post by gdanaher »

Rex B wrote:The friend (his aunt) is a classic Boston liberal Jew).
Now after several days, I have seen no effort to apologize for this comment, no efforts on the parts of the moderators to correct or edit this comment, and only a single post to call it to task. All the rest, including the moderators, must agree with the OP? Shameful.

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Rex B
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Re: 2nd Amendment misunderstood?

#25

Post by Rex B »

Geez. Original post edited to placate the PC :roll:
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