obamacare upheld

[Winchster]

For all of you who say things like "revolution is coming" or a new civil war is in the offing, please tell me how this will happen? I mean, what will start it? Because let me explain something to you: it takes a LARGE GROUP of people to do something like that. If the group is too small, they are labeled "terrorists" or "extremists" or just plain crazies...and then law enforcement will be sicked on them, and they WILL get arrested. And the press WILL tell everyone that the nation was saved by law enforcement who arrested said terrorists, extremists, or crazies...and folks will believe whatever the press tells them to believe. I hate the current administration. I despise their principles, their ideology and their methodology. But, all I can do is tell others WHY I don't like them and then I can go to the polls and VOTE AGAINST the administration and hope that enough of those I talked to will do the same. That's it, there is NOTHING ELSE, until such time as a large enough group of people, AS A WHOLE, come together to do something different than that. Everything else is wishful thinking, even if a lot of folks are thinking the same thing. The Civil War happened because a number of states seceded and banded together in their succession. They lost, yes, but that isn't the point of what I am saying...they were able to make a go of it because they were large enough of a group to do so...otherwise, they would simply have been arrested or captured, and probably hung for treason or imprisoned. So, once again, I challenge any of you who do not love this administration to come up with a plan to get them out of office, and to still feel as if you haven't compromised your principles.

The only way either occurs, is after we have lost all our freedom. "Frogs in a pot" and all that, otherwise you are correct, the numbers are too small to make any appreciable difference. People don't truly appreciate the liberties that we have and won't even begin to make true steps to take them back until we live in an oppressive socialist society. THEN, revolution is possible.

It is my humble opinion, that the best thing that could possibly happen now is for a state, any state, to have the courage to stand up and tell the feds off. For example, if the citizens of the State of Texas, voted for secession and had the willingness to follow through.

[57Coastie]

...It worries me.

Uh, oh. We agree again, Chris. We are both worried, but about different things.

Jim

[57Coastie]

It is my humble opinion, that the best thing that could possibly happen now is for a state, any state, to have the courage to stand up and tell the feds off. For example, if the citizens of the State of Texas, voted for secession and had the willingness to follow through.

Several states tried that already, you know, and they lost the most horrible and bloody war our nation has ever engaged in. This time I suspect those remaining in the union would once again take guns, of all kinds, away from Texans, and not to keep them away from blacks this time. That would be productive only insofar as certain egos would be elevated, perhaps as they die, and as our great State succumbs.

I know I waste my breath here, as our respective opinions were most likely cast in bronze at birth, but I cannot sit on my hands and see such things said without being heard from, else these statements about all CHLers being reactionary conservatives will be believed by the choir to be true only because no reply is heard.

Jim

[Winchster]

Yes, I know several tried and failed. The problem is, the federal government is completely out of control and there is no fixing the situation as it currently exists. We are more than sixty years into socialist government welfare and "progressive" thinking. Once given, it is virtually impossible to take away. It would be "too painful" for whomever it affected, whether it be social security, medicare, obamacare, whatever. The Constitution began its death throes with FDR and the "new deal", and the final bell tolled with the Chief Justice writing law from the bench.

It is not about ego at all. It is about Liberty.

I'm open to suggestion, as to how we fix the current problem. You aren't ever wasting breath in discussing with me, I'm willing to listen to anyone.

[danpaw]

Didn't Romney promise to grant waivers to all 50 states if he wins?

[mamabearCali]

That fixes this problem....the larger problem still exists. Extensive govt $$ and control in far too many area of our lives. This mess took a long time to create, I am betting it will take a long time o clean up.

[gdanaher]

I cannot find a statement about which I more strongly disagree.

I cannot find a statement about which I more strongly disagree, either. I really don't think you read what I wrote.

[The Annoyed Man]

It is my humble opinion, that the best thing that could possibly happen now is for a state, any state, to have the courage to stand up and tell the feds off. For example, if the citizens of the State of Texas, voted for secession and had the willingness to follow through.

Several states tried that already, you know, and they lost the most horrible and bloody war our nation has ever engaged in. This time I suspect those remaining in the union would once again take guns, of all kinds, away from Texans, and not to keep them away from blacks this time. That would be productive only insofar as certain egos would be elevated, perhaps as they die, and as our great State succumbs.

I know I waste my breath here, as our respective opinions were most likely cast in bronze at birth, but I cannot sit on my hands and see such things said without being heard from, else these statements about all CHLers being reactionary conservatives will be believed by the choir to be true only because no reply is heard.

Jim

Actually, you're not wasting your breath with me. I find the thought of a revolution/succession pretty unsettling, and I agree that the last kerfuffle in 1860-1865 put paid to that. Where we disagree is probably in whether or not people in the mainstream are beginning to feel increasingly like they've been pushed almost to that limit. A lot have. Not everybody, but a lot. It's not just a "fringe element" phenomenon anymore. It's not sensible to live in denial of that.

[sjfcontrol]

But... Does obamacare cover insurrection gunshot wounds?

[The Annoyed Man]

But... Does obamacare cover insurrection gunshot wounds?

I don't know, but:

WSJ CHIEF ECONOMIST: 75% OF OBAMACARE COSTS WILL FALL ON BACKS OF THOSE MAKING LESS THAN $120K A YEAR
By: Jim Hoft
6/30/2012 11:44 AM
Human Events

Take Your Medicine, America…
Stephen Moore, Senior Economics Writer with the Wall Street Journal, told FOX and Friends this morning that nearly 75% of Obamacare costs will fall on the backs of those Americans making less than $120,000 a year.

[youtube][/youtube]

I smell democrats.

[Heartland Patriot]

No offense taken. Conservatives have been doing it your way for 20 years or more and the result speaks for itself.

And once again, no solution offered...just a trite statement. Done arguing with you, because you seem to be just messing around.

[Heartland Patriot]

For all of you who say things like "revolution is coming" or a new civil war is in the offing, please tell me how this will happen? I mean, what will start it? Because let me explain something to you: it takes a LARGE GROUP of people to do something like that. If the group is too small, they are labeled "terrorists" or "extremists" or just plain crazies...and then law enforcement will be sicked on them, and they WILL get arrested. And the press WILL tell everyone that the nation was saved by law enforcement who arrested said terrorists, extremists, or crazies...and folks will believe whatever the press tells them to believe. I hate the current administration. I despise their principles, their ideology and their methodology. But, all I can do is tell others WHY I don't like them and then I can go to the polls and VOTE AGAINST the administration and hope that enough of those I talked to will do the same. That's it, there is NOTHING ELSE, until such time as a large enough group of people, AS A WHOLE, come together to do something different than that. Everything else is wishful thinking, even if a lot of folks are thinking the same thing. The Civil War happened because a number of states seceded and banded together in their succession. They lost, yes, but that isn't the point of what I am saying...they were able to make a go of it because they were large enough of a group to do so...otherwise, they would simply have been arrested or captured, and probably hung for treason or imprisoned. So, once again, I challenge any of you who do not love this administration to come up with a plan to get them out of office, and to still feel as if you haven't compromised your principles.

Please note that each time I've mentioned it, I have said that this is not a desirable outcome, and that we ought to fear it. Our founders feared it enough to exercise every alternative pleading before the court of King George before they were pushed over the edge by various edicts and General Gage's actions. I. Do. Not. Want. That.

The reason I speak of it is because I am afraid that this is where we are being pushed, and I want progressives and weak-livered republicans and other liberals to get a dang clue before they blow things up with their foolishness.

That is where I am coming from. It worries me.

TAM, I didn't mean you specifically WANTED something to happen. I hope by now that I know you a bit better than that, at least as you are on here, and I have no reason to believe you to be otherwise. However, there are others out there who are saying this and that about revolutions and uprisings, etc including folks I know on FB. I guess I could have been a little clearer when I wrote what I did. What I was getting at is that I believe it will take a LOT more than this mess of a SCOTUS decision to get people to that point, that they will put up with a LOT worse than is going on right now. Most people look to leaders that think like they do to tell them what to do, and do NOT take matters into their own hands. Its simply a fact of life. I've read that the Revolutionary War was actively fought by about 10% of the colonists, that another 20% actively supported them and some other undetermined percentage partially supported them...about 20% supported the Crown, and a good chunk of the people tried their best to stay out of it. And in the event that a few folks think they are going to do something against the government, they will quickly find themselves in a bad way, unless they are part of a LARGE group. So, to my thinking, if I can help find any method of pushing off terrible goings on and keep things running on a semi-normal level just a bit longer, then I will. And if that means I vote for Mitt Romney and do my best to convince others to do the same, then so be it.

[Kythas]

For all of you who say things like "revolution is coming" or a new civil war is in the offing, please tell me how this will happen? I mean, what will start it? Because let me explain something to you: it takes a LARGE GROUP of people to do something like that. If the group is too small, they are labeled "terrorists" or "extremists" or just plain crazies...and then law enforcement will be sicked on them, and they WILL get arrested. And the press WILL tell everyone that the nation was saved by law enforcement who arrested said terrorists, extremists, or crazies...and folks will believe whatever the press tells them to believe. I hate the current administration. I despise their principles, their ideology and their methodology. But, all I can do is tell others WHY I don't like them and then I can go to the polls and VOTE AGAINST the administration and hope that enough of those I talked to will do the same. That's it, there is NOTHING ELSE, until such time as a large enough group of people, AS A WHOLE, come together to do something different than that. Everything else is wishful thinking, even if a lot of folks are thinking the same thing. The Civil War happened because a number of states seceded and banded together in their succession. They lost, yes, but that isn't the point of what I am saying...they were able to make a go of it because they were large enough of a group to do so...otherwise, they would simply have been arrested or captured, and probably hung for treason or imprisoned. So, once again, I challenge any of you who do not love this administration to come up with a plan to get them out of office, and to still feel as if you haven't compromised your principles.

The only way either occurs, is after we have lost all our freedom. "Frogs in a pot" and all that, otherwise you are correct, the numbers are too small to make any appreciable difference. People don't truly appreciate the liberties that we have and won't even begin to make true steps to take them back until we live in an oppressive socialist society. THEN, revolution is possible.

It is my humble opinion, that the best thing that could possibly happen now is for a state, any state, to have the courage to stand up and tell the feds off. For example, if the citizens of the State of Texas, voted for secession and had the willingness to follow through.

I would guess it begins like it did in Syria and Libya. Some group would start organizing protests, probably via social media. These protest would become large and begin provoking authorities. Local authorities would begin to use some level of force to counter the protesters. Some of the protest organizers would take video of the authorities' actions and post them online, provoking other people to become angry and join in the protests. At some point, it would become too much for local officials to handle and the national government would step in. Organizers would then provoke the national government, most likely military at this point, who would again respond with force, which would get video taped and spread, causing other people to become angry, etc.

Note this is what OWS tried and failed to do, partly because of the incredible amount of restraint by local authorities and also the American People saw through the OWS charade to who was behind it, also the provocation to local authority was far too egregious on the OWS side to provoke any sympathy from regular Americans.

[Dave2]

I would guess it begins like it did in Syria and Libya. Some group would start organizing protests, probably via social media. These protest would become large and begin provoking authorities. Local authorities would begin to use some level of force to counter the protesters. Some of the protest organizers would take video of the authorities' actions and post them online, provoking other people to become angry and join in the protests. At some point, it would become too much for local officials to handle and the national government would step in. Organizers would then provoke the national government, most likely military at this point, who would again respond with force, which would get video taped and spread, causing other people to become angry, etc.

I thought the military couldn't be deployed against americans. Are you talking about the various State & National Guards, or are you implying Obama will try to do it anyway?

[Kythas]

I would guess it begins like it did in Syria and Libya. Some group would start organizing protests, probably via social media. These protest would become large and begin provoking authorities. Local authorities would begin to use some level of force to counter the protesters. Some of the protest organizers would take video of the authorities' actions and post them online, provoking other people to become angry and join in the protests. At some point, it would become too much for local officials to handle and the national government would step in. Organizers would then provoke the national government, most likely military at this point, who would again respond with force, which would get video taped and spread, causing other people to become angry, etc.

I thought the military couldn't be deployed against americans. Are you talking about the various State & National Guards, or are you implying Obama will try to do it anyway?

The various National Guard units would be the first to be deployed, yes. But if Martial Law were declared, the regular military would then be able to deploy.

The question to consider here is: if any military unit were to receive orders such as this, would the members of the unit and/or the commanders obey the order? How many soldiers, if any, would defect? Would entire units decide to disobey their orders at that point?