obamacare upheld

[glbedd53]

Like Margaret Thatcher said, the problem with socialism is eventually you run out of other peoples money. That's the real end of story. It's being proven in Europe right now. I guess we got to prove it here too.

[gdanaher]

If someone wants to be a physician, they are going to go to med school. The rules changed in Texas a few years ago that encouraged doctors to come to Texas from other states. Really didn't help get more doctors. Changing the liability exposure didn't help. Changing the tax structure didn't help. Changing the tuition forgiveness rules didn't help. Moral of the story is that doctors go where they want to go and do what they want to do. Costs of paperwork, deadbeat patients, and everything is rolled into the price I pay or the price my insurance pays. If anything good comes from this, it is that everyone will have some sort of coverage which in turn should flatten out the individual costs so that those with insurance will no longer have to be paying for the high percentage of those who don't. Final point, if all legal citizens and residents have some kind of coverage, what happens to the undocumented folks who have no insurance, no social security, no nothing except forged documents. Will this make them stand out in the system even more?

[Rex B]

Roberts vote is the most disappointing. I can only guess that he was rebelling at being thought of as a predictable conservative vote.

[snatchel]

If someone wants to be a physician, they are going to go to med school. The rules changed in Texas a few years ago that encouraged doctors to come to Texas from other states. Really didn't help get more doctors. Changing the liability exposure didn't help. Changing the tax structure didn't help. Changing the tuition forgiveness rules didn't help. Moral of the story is that doctors go where they want to go and do what they want to do. Costs of paperwork, deadbeat patients, and everything is rolled into the price I pay or the price my insurance pays. If anything good comes from this, it is that everyone will have some sort of coverage which in turn should flatten out the individual costs so that those with insurance will no longer have to be paying for the high percentage of those who don't. Final point, if all legal citizens and residents have some kind of coverage, what happens to the undocumented folks who have no insurance, no social security, no nothing except forged documents. Will this make them stand out in the system even more?

I wouldn't think so... no more than not having insurance, social security, or forged documents would. But I haven't put much thought into that....

[The Annoyed Man]

And here I though the people on the site were smart. I cannot believe so many "smart" people are still buying into the lies of the right wing media machine.

And I can't believe you're calling us stupid to our faces. Nice.

You called me the enemy of America.

This bill speaks for itself.

[The Annoyed Man]

And here I though the people on the site were smart. I cannot believe so many "smart" people are still buying into the lies of the right wing media machine.

This may be a useless exercise, and please don't see this as an attack, but could you enumerate and explain what right wing media lies that the other posters have bought in to? You could even just do the top three.


Such as:

#1> Do you believe this is NOT a tax?

You can choose the rest...


PS...In the future when you choose to call a group stupid, I would double check grammar and spelling before hitting the old submit button.

1. Yes it is a Tax I cannot dispute that.
2. There is no rationing of care http://www.politifact.com/ohio/statemen ... -can-rati/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
3.It is NOT a government takeover of healthcare http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter ... nment-tak/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
4. You will not go to jail for not buying health insurance http://www.politifact.com/virginia/stat ... lth-care-/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
5. There are and never will be "Death panels" http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter ... ath-panel/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

That part in red is bull. Collections of the punishment tax will be via the IRS. What if you refuse to pay it? If there is no jail, then they cannot enforce the fine.......same as for any other tax. I am a struggling self-employed person. I have no money to pay this fine......and I still will not have insurance. I can barely come up with my property taxes lately. Will the state put me out of my home, which is 100% paid for, because they have a lien against my property for a penalty that I cannot afford?

If YOU voted for the passage of this crap, that makes you my enemy. In the weeks after the initial passage of Obamacare, my wife's insurance (which we buy out of pocket) went up 10%. That makes anyone who supports this crap my enemy because if you did, you reached deep into my pocket. On the basis of the news of today's decision, the Dow Jones, the NASDAQ, and the S&P 500 went down, further damaging an already damaged economy......which has an immediate negative impact on my ability to grow my business. That makes anyone who voted for this crap my enemy because you reached deep into my pocket. You couldn't have been any more efficient if you had kicked down my door and just taken whatever you wanted. That's why you are now my enemy. And if your votes helped to dismantle the Constitution, then you are an enemy of the nation. Don't like that? Deal with it.

[03Lightningrocks]

Here is a perfect example of what odumbellcare represents to a small business owner. Two years ago... Increase of premiums by 40% ... Forced to reduce health care benefits to afford policy. Last year... 60% increased... Forced to further reduce healthcare benefits to afford policy. This June... 20% increase... We are trying to figure out how to keep from further reductions in healthcare benefits. We represent 13 working class families. We are being punished for working so the liberal elitists can buy the votes of folks who are too lazy to work.

Thanks... But no thanks! Only a moron would fail to see the game being played here. It is about government control.

[Kythas]

Roberts vote is the most disappointing. I can only guess that he was rebelling at being thought of as a predictable conservative vote.

Roberts may have done Conservatism a favor, actually.

He got the court to reject the Commerce Clause argument, thereby letting Congress know there are limits to what they can try to achieve through that. This has been a big issue and a big slippery slope for the last century, and this ruling may have put a huge speed bump, if not a stop sign, in that road.

Roberts also basically told Obama "You can have your health care law, but you can't keep lying about it. A tax is a tax and you're a liar if you call it anything else." And now the American people know that Obama has just stuck them with the largest, most crippling tax ($1.2 trillion over the next 10 years, according to the CBO) in history.

Now, going into the election, Obama has his law. He has his tax hike. He must own it. He must defend it. He must live with it. And the opposition is now galvanized against him to a degree I've not seen before. And Obama must now be judged by the American people by his new taxes.

In the decision, Roberts said this, which I find telling:

“Members of this Court are vested with the authority to interpret the law; we possess neither the expertise nor the prerogative to make policy judgments. Those decisions are entrusted to our nation’s elected leaders, who can be thrown out of office if the people disagree with them. It is not our job to protect the people from the consequences of their political choices.”

[hi-power]

Roberts vote is the most disappointing. I can only guess that he was rebelling at being thought of as a predictable conservative vote.

AndyC and Kythas are right. It's all a part of Roberts' master plan:

Chief Justice Roberts has given Mitt Romney a key attack: The president is a tax-and-spend liberal bent on expanding government to unprecedented levels. And the presumed Republican nominee knows it: “If we want to get rid of Obamacare, we’re going to have to replace President Obama,” he said from a rooftop in Washington overlooking the Capitol. “What the court did not do on its last day in session, I will do on my first day if elected president.”

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/201 ... or-romney/
Edited to add: No, I won't give Roberts credit for it, but it may well turn the argument in the Republican's favor in November. The TEA party is about to get loud.

[The Mad Moderate]

And here I though the people on the site were smart. I cannot believe so many "smart" people are still buying into the lies of the right wing media machine.

This may be a useless exercise, and please don't see this as an attack, but could you enumerate and explain what right wing media lies that the other posters have bought in to? You could even just do the top three.


Such as:

#1> Do you believe this is NOT a tax?

You can choose the rest...


PS...In the future when you choose to call a group stupid, I would double check grammar and spelling before hitting the old submit button.

1. Yes it is a Tax I cannot dispute that.
2. There is no rationing of care http://www.politifact.com/ohio/statemen ... -can-rati/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
3.It is NOT a government takeover of healthcare http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter ... nment-tak/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
4. You will not go to jail for not buying health insurance http://www.politifact.com/virginia/stat ... lth-care-/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
5. There are and never will be "Death panels" http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter ... ath-panel/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

That part in red is bull. Collections of the punishment tax will be via the IRS. What if you refuse to pay it? If there is no jail, then they cannot enforce the fine.......same as for any other tax.

By taking your tax refund or garnishing your wages. Having worked for the IRS it is relatively rare to end up in jail for not paying taxes, it happens but not as often as one thinks. Also I believe there are provisions in the bill that forbid it. But what does it matter what I say as you see me and 54% of americans an your enemy. I guess I ought to go crawl in a hole and die now since I am so un-American. Although something about he who is without sin casting the first stone or not throwing stones if you live in a glass house comes to mind. I call you the enemy of liberty for supporting the president who passed the Patriot Act, which striped far more liberty from us than Obama could ever dream of.

[mamabearCali]

Oh so instead of throwing my parents in jail because he lost his job and his health care benefits(a direct result of this bills passage) and my mom works for a tiny private school. This bill will just take what little money they have left to keep the house payment and feed themselves. Thanks, I feel so much better.

As a side note I didn't like the patriot act either. Of course I have noticed that the dems have been surprisingly silent on it now that they are ruling the roost. Not a whiff of a repeal heard on that one.

[Rex B]

I call you the enemy of liberty for supporting the president who passed the Patriot Act, which striped far more liberty from us than Obama could ever dream of.

That would be the same Patriot Act your boy Obama re-authorized in 2010?

[cbunt1]

And here I though the people on the site were smart. I cannot believe so many "smart" people are still buying into the lies of the right wing media machine.

This may be a useless exercise, and please don't see this as an attack, but could you enumerate and explain what right wing media lies that the other posters have bought in to? You could even just do the top three.


Such as:

#1> Do you believe this is NOT a tax?

You can choose the rest...


PS...In the future when you choose to call a group stupid, I would double check grammar and spelling before hitting the old submit button.

1. Yes it is a Tax I cannot dispute that.
2. There is no rationing of care http://www.politifact.com/ohio/statemen ... -can-rati/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
3.It is NOT a government takeover of healthcare http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter ... nment-tak/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
4. You will not go to jail for not buying health insurance http://www.politifact.com/virginia/stat ... lth-care-/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
5. There are and never will be "Death panels" http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter ... ath-panel/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

That part in red is bull. Collections of the punishment tax will be via the IRS. What if you refuse to pay it? If there is no jail, then they cannot enforce the fine.......same as for any other tax.

By taking your tax refund or garnishing your wages. Having worked for the IRS it is relatively rare to end up in jail for not paying taxes, it happens but not as often as one thinks. Also I believe there are provisions in the bill that forbid it. But what does it matter what I say as you see me and 54% of americans an your enemy. I guess I ought to go crawl in a hole and die now since I am so un-American. Although something about he who is without sin casting the first stone or not throwing stones if you live in a glass house comes to mind. I call you the enemy of liberty for supporting the president who passed the Patriot Act, which striped far more liberty from us than Obama could ever dream of.

This will be an interesting discussion, from two people whom I respect, both of whom have well thought-out and supportable opinions.

That said, the blasphemy to the Constitution (at this point) does NOT lie in the allegations (Tax vs. fine, death panels, rationing of care, nor enforcement by the IRS) but in the liberty aspect. Freedom of choice, as well as states rights, are the core issues at hand here. By the time cases go to the Supreme Court, they are (usually) no longer a matter of the content of a particular bill, but the application.

The matters we all get up in arms about (death panels, rationing, etc.) are matters of content...Supreme Court doesn't hear normative matters (e.g. "Should thus and so happen because it's the right/wrong thing") but matters of law (e.g. "does it fit within the framework of the Constitution and previous case law?")

We can argue "Should we have Obamacare" all day long, and reasonable people can disagree. The implications from these rulings are about "How does our legal system work?"

[BillT]

And by the way, just what "opportunity of life" are you talking about that children were lacking that they now receive? You won't be able to provide a single factual example of a child left high and dry by the healthcare system. That's just feel good nonsense.

I'm sorry TAM you crossed a line there implying I'm lying. The "just feel good nonsense" is just you believing that the problem doesn't exist. I have had many first hand experiences with children suffering and sometimes dying for lack of health care. I have been married for many years to a teacher that works in a very large public school district here in Texas. She has taught bilingual classes as well as non esl classes from elementary through high school. She is now an administrator. You are clueless to the number of children without healthcare that have mental issues that can be controlled with medication but the parents can't afford it. The cities and counties have cut their free assistance as budgets have been cut. I have donated numerous times to money raising causes to help a child pay for dialysis, transplants, meds etc. throughout her career. A close friend of mine gave up the teaching profession because she lost a dear student (age 10) over a Christmas holiday vacation because she had treatable leukemia and no insurance or public assistance to help save her. You are living an upper middle class dream TAM. Wake up and realize the real world is much more harsh and unforgiving than the little part of the world you exist in!!! With the number of post you have made on this forum I gave you a lot more credit than I should have. Turn off your computer for a while and take a drive through a poor neighborhood or two. Talk to people. Ask them what their problems are. You might be enlightened at what you might learn! Not everyone has it as good as we do. And it's not because they are lazy or came here illegally. One of my favorite causes is the St. Judes Childrens Hospital. I donate to them every year because they only take patients that have no way to pay for their life saving care. You know, the ones that don't exist in your mind. Google their phone number and give them a call. I'm sure they can give you a few specifics that might help burst your "feel good nonsense" bubble. Good luck to you sir.