"Jury nullification" : Jurors can acquit despite evidence.

As the name indicates, this is the place for gun-related political discussions. It is not open to other political topics.

Moderators: carlson1, Charles L. Cotton


Topic author
surprise_i'm_armed
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 2
Posts: 4620
Joined: Mon Mar 09, 2009 1:16 am
Location: Shady Shores, Denton County. On the shores of Lake Lewisville. John Wayne filmed here.

"Jury nullification" : Jurors can acquit despite evidence.

#1

Post by surprise_i'm_armed »

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/21/opini ... .html?_r=1

The above is an interesting article regarding the concept of "jury nullification".

The concept here is that even if person is guilty of something under the letter of the law, the jurors are the
ultimate determinants of whether a person will be found "guilty" or "not guilty", and may vote to hold the
person "not guilty" if they want to. Although the judge may not like their verdict, the judge won't be able
to punish the jurors.

I once worked with a guy who was a "tax rebel", stating that the US government had no right to impose an
income tax. He provided me with a handout pamphlet making that case, but the more interesting pamphlet
that he gave me regarded "jury nullification."

The link above discusses jury nullification with regard to marijuana cases. But consider that you were on a
jury and some CHL was in the hot seat, being tried for something. If you felt that he was a good person that
simply was ensnared by the letter of the law, you could free this man by voting to acquit.

I like the concept that the jurors have more power than they think.

Since IANAL, I don't know how a judge's instructions to a jury just prior to deliberations would square with the
concept of "jury nullification".

Does anyone have any thoughts on this, or have direct experience?

SIA
N. Texas LTC's hold 3 breakfasts each month. All are 800 AM. OC is fine.
2nd Saturdays: Rudy's BBQ, N. Dallas Pkwy, N.bound, N. of Main St., Frisco.
3rd Saturdays: Golden Corral, 465 E. I-20, Collins St exit, Arlington.
4th Saturdays: Sunny St. Cafe, off I-20, Exit 415, Mikus Rd, Willow Park.
User avatar

OldCannon
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 2
Posts: 3059
Joined: Sun Jan 17, 2010 11:19 am
Location: Cedar Park, TX

Re: "Jury nullification" : Jurors can acquit despite evidenc

#2

Post by OldCannon »

Image
I don't fear guns; I fear voters and politicians that fear guns.
User avatar

WildBill
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 2
Posts: 17350
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2007 12:53 pm
Location: Houston

Re: "Jury nullification" : Jurors can acquit despite evidenc

#3

Post by WildBill »

surprise_i'm_armed wrote: The above is an interesting article regarding the concept of "jury nullification".

I like the concept that the jurors have more power than they think.

Does anyone have any thoughts on this, or have direct experience?

SIA
I don't have any direct experience. IMO, there are many laws which should be "nullified".

I don't imagine that a DA or judge would like it, but I think it's a great idea. I don't think that a judge would include that in jury instructions, but the jury doesn't have to explain to the DA or judge why they voted to acquit a defendant.

On the other hand, it's probably not the best strategy for a defense lawyer. ;-)
NRA Endowment Member
User avatar

i8godzilla
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 1
Posts: 1184
Joined: Mon Jun 21, 2010 10:13 am
Location: Central TX
Contact:

Re: "Jury nullification" : Jurors can acquit despite evidenc

#4

Post by i8godzilla »

I have read quite a bit of information on the subject. If you ever give any hint that you may believe that juries have the power of nullification, you can bet you will not be on the jury.

Here is snippet from one of my earlier posts on another topic:
Jury Nullification is the only way to change our runaway government. If juries refuse to convict defendants charged with particular crime, the prosecutors will eventually quit filling those charges. Jury Nullification is a dirty word in most legal circles with judges even telling juries that they cannot find a defendant not guilty just because they believe the law is unjust.

This is an interesting and short read:
http://law2.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/f ... ation.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Other informational links about Jury Nullification:
http://www.fija.org/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.isil.org/resources/lit/histo ... -null.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.washburnlaw.edu/wlj/46-2/art ... andrew.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; (A long read.)
No State shall convert a liberty into a privilege, license it, and charge a fee therefor. -- Murdock v. Pennsylvania
If the State converts a right into a privilege, the citizen can ignore the license and fee and engage in the right with impunity. -- Shuttleworth v. City of Birmingham
User avatar

C-dub
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 2
Posts: 13562
Joined: Sat May 16, 2009 7:18 pm
Location: DFW

Re: "Jury nullification" : Jurors can acquit despite evidenc

#5

Post by C-dub »

I thought jury nullification was the other way around. If a jury convicted someone, but there wasn't really enough evidence to support the conviction a judge could nullify the jury's verdict and set aside the conviction.

Okay, I looked it up and I'm wrong, so what are the circumstances I'm thinking about? I have heard of jury nullification happening, but didn't know that's what it was called.
I am not and have never been a LEO. My avatar is in honor of my friend, Dallas Police Sargent Michael Smith, who was murdered along with four other officers in Dallas on 7.7.2016.
NRA Patriot-Endowment Lifetime Member---------------------------------------------Si vis pacem, para bellum.................................................Patriot Guard Rider
User avatar

C-dub
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 2
Posts: 13562
Joined: Sat May 16, 2009 7:18 pm
Location: DFW

Re: "Jury nullification" : Jurors can acquit despite evidenc

#6

Post by C-dub »

Ah, found it!

Judgement Notwithstanding Verdict (JNOV)

It can be a little tricky, but that's what I was thinking about.
I am not and have never been a LEO. My avatar is in honor of my friend, Dallas Police Sargent Michael Smith, who was murdered along with four other officers in Dallas on 7.7.2016.
NRA Patriot-Endowment Lifetime Member---------------------------------------------Si vis pacem, para bellum.................................................Patriot Guard Rider
User avatar

WildBill
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 2
Posts: 17350
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2007 12:53 pm
Location: Houston

Re: "Jury nullification" : Jurors can acquit despite evidenc

#7

Post by WildBill »

C-dub wrote:Ah, found it!

Judgement Notwithstanding Verdict (JNOV)

It can be a little tricky, but that's what I was thinking about.
This is very rare. A judge can also issue a directed [not quilty] verdict before the case goes to the jury. Also very rare.
NRA Endowment Member
User avatar

pbwalker
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 2
Posts: 3032
Joined: Thu May 01, 2008 10:12 am
Location: Northern Colorado

Re: "Jury nullification" : Jurors can acquit despite evidenc

#8

Post by pbwalker »

Mentioning Jury Nullification is the *quickest* way out of Jury Duty... ;-)
*NRA Endowment Member* | Veteran
Vote Adam Kraut for the NRA Board of Directors - http://www.adamkraut.com/
User avatar

OldCannon
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 2
Posts: 3059
Joined: Sun Jan 17, 2010 11:19 am
Location: Cedar Park, TX

Re: "Jury nullification" : Jurors can acquit despite evidenc

#9

Post by OldCannon »

pbwalker wrote:Mentioning Jury Nullification is the *quickest* way out of Jury Duty... ;-)
ANY sign of cognitive thinking is the quickest way out of jury duty.
I don't fear guns; I fear voters and politicians that fear guns.

philip964
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 1
Posts: 18229
Joined: Wed Sep 30, 2009 12:30 pm

Re: "Jury nullification" : Jurors can acquit despite evidenc

#10

Post by philip964 »

And I suspect you dare not discuss it in the Jury Room during deliberations.

Razgriz
Member
Posts in topic: 1
Posts: 95
Joined: Tue Jul 27, 2010 6:47 pm

Re: "Jury nullification" : Jurors can acquit despite evidenc

#11

Post by Razgriz »

I thought everyone knew about this, another one of those "common to you knowledge" things. As far as the judges go, what are they going to do, arrest them for not following instructions? Simply say "We did not find the evidence to be sufficient/reliable enough to find this person guilty", then THEY have to prove that you thought otherwise, which as long as you didn't actually mention "Jury Nullification" I wish them good luck.
User avatar

Jumping Frog
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 1
Posts: 5488
Joined: Wed Aug 25, 2010 9:13 am
Location: Klein, TX (Houston NW suburb)

Re: "Jury nullification" : Jurors can acquit despite evidenc

#12

Post by Jumping Frog »

Not surprised to read the actual article is really discussing how the federal government is seeking to grab more power unconstitutionally.
-Just call me Bob . . . Texas Firearms Coalition, NRA Life member, TSRA Life member, and OFCC Patron member

This froggie ain't boiling! Shall not be infringed! Μολών Λαβέ
User avatar

jmra
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 1
Posts: 10371
Joined: Tue Feb 03, 2009 6:51 am
Location: Ellis County

Re: "Jury nullification" : Jurors can acquit despite evidenc

#13

Post by jmra »

This is why guilty people choose a trial by jury instead of a trial by judge. A judges verdict must be based upon the letter of the law. A jury's verdict is almost always at least partially based on emotion. "yeah I know he did it, but I would've done the same thing in his shoes".
Life is tough, but it's tougher when you're stupid.
John Wayne
NRA Lifetime member

bayouhazard
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 1
Posts: 823
Joined: Sat Jun 21, 2008 2:30 pm
Location: Wild West Houston

Re: "Jury nullification" : Jurors can acquit despite evidenc

#14

Post by bayouhazard »

The power of the courts is the power of the courts. If a judge has the power to say "unconstitutional" then so does a jury.

tommyg
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 1
Posts: 875
Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2011 9:59 am
Location: Dale, TX

Re: "Jury nullification" : Jurors can acquit despite evidenc

#15

Post by tommyg »

Jurors are usually ignorant of the law and the power that they have.
Judges and prosecutors frown on informing jurors of the power they have
Anyone with any legal training is automatically culled out of being a juror

They also don't want felons who have had expierence with the law that is
why felons are ban from jury duty no jail house lawyers allowed on a jury.
When I was transporting inmates for work release I learned a lot about what it is really like.

Anyone who flames me for this statement is a nieve fool
N.R.A. benefactor Member :tiphat: Please Support the N.R.A. :patriot:
Post Reply

Return to “Gun and/or Self-Defense Related Political Issues”