TSA and venues other than airports

[mamabearCali]

Yes, do what you can to change things, but in the meantime, what else can we do but withhold our consent? On a practical level that usually means avoidance.

My point in highlighting this newest list of places that the TSA are arriving at is to show that avoidance is not going to be practical or even possible soon. If something is not done to reign in this tyrannical arm of the federal government we won't be able to get groceries/drive down the road without being assaulted. Perhaps that is good, maybe the more people who have their private areas groped and are upset the more people we have that want the TSA rolled back. Perhaps this overreach may result in a stinging slap back. As for our governement officials doing nothing--well in your state right now I think on Friday there is a measure coming up for vote in the TX legislature to slap TSA's hand back good and hard. I don't live in TX, if you do, perhaps you should call your state representative and say you want the bill limiting TSA's ability to grope people passes. I have called, but I don't live there so surely a resident member of their district will have more clout with them.

[Ameer]

I think the basic problem and conflict here is that the violations that bother you and I and many others who post here don't bother the bulk of the population. Most Americans either think being groped at the airport makes them safe, or they accept it as part of the "price" of air travel.

Or they enjoy it. Based on pictures and videos online, it's obvious there's a lot of exhibitionists out there.

[SewTexas]

So your solution is "don't like it--don't shop in malls" Really? Instead of trying to stop the TSA's illegal actions by doing what we can (writing congressmen/senators/state officials and opposing in legal manners this breach of our God given rights) your suggestion is avoid those places where they could be conceivably set up.

First, you're presenting a hypothetical scenario, and I'm responding to a hypothetical scenario. And yes, during said hypothetical scenario you would of course be sending letters and such, I'm simply giving you other options for shopping during said 'crack down'.

[mamabearCali]

You haven't said anything here that I disagree with. What you say about ticket sales is exactly my point: Sea World conduct is limited by their calculation of cost and revenue, and the feedback mechanism that regulates this conduct is probably quick and direct. The TSA doesn't care if you don't fly, in fact, fewer passengers would no doubt make their job more pleasant. There is no direct connection between dollars and their behavior, especially at the margin where people first start to react.

However, I still think you're training your children that you find "Shamu's" searches acceptable and in the long run the threshold of what is "acceptable" will thereby be raised. You may understand the distinction between searches conducted by Sea World and searches conducted by the TSA and pass this comprehension on to your children, but I submit to you that the process helps accommodate the bulk of the population to being searched, and over time will lead to more intrusive searches by both Sea World and the government.

Truly I think if anything/anyone is conditioning people to greater searching capacity it would be the TSA, not Shamu. Part of the difference between the two is Sea World search of my bags is legal, and does not humiliate or assault my family. In comparison to Sea Worlds search of bags, the TSA is deliberately humiliating and degrading people with no cause whatsoever, and what they are doing is not legal because they are government officials.

As for what I am teaching my children, you could say that I am teaching my kids that if you want to go somewhere you have to obey the (legal) stated rules, and if you don't like the rules and can't abide by them you don't go. So is Shamu accustoming people to having their privates felt, because they are looking in my bag--maybe, but that is a stretch. I at this time have the ability to avoid TSA searches for myself and my family, so I do. That could change if the TSA is not stopped and they continue to branch out to all forms of transportation. That is what the point of all I said at the start of this thread.

[mamabearCali]

First, you're presenting a hypothetical scenario, and I'm responding to a hypothetical scenario. And yes, during said hypothetical scenario you would of course be sending letters and such, I'm simply giving you other options for shopping during said 'crack down'.

Well it is not so hypothetical now...they are going to bus stations, train stations, metro stations, and High School Proms apparently. So right now, you could be assaulted by the TSA by riding a Trolley down the street to your local shopping center.


I am adding a link that has a more complete picture of what they are planning to do.
http://motherjones.com/mojo/2011/06/tsa ... ems-yearly" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[SewTexas]

honestly, I'm not being rude, just truthful.....

I live just north of San Antonio (a few miles)...We don't do trollies....nor busses....honestly, "we don't believe in no mass transit her'bouts"....now horses....eh, maybe, "we likes our trucks, the bigger the better!"

a train or bus ride takes over a day just to get out of TX, this isn't a surprise, it's what they've been saying for a couple of years they were going to do. The best thing that can happen is for TX to kick the TSA out, then for other states to follow us.

[mamabearCali]

honestly, I'm not being rude, just truthful.....

I live just north of San Antonio (a few miles)...We don't do trollies....nor busses....honestly, "we don't believe in no mass transit her'bouts"....now horses....eh, maybe, "we likes our trucks, the bigger the better!"

a train or bus ride takes over a day just to get out of TX, this isn't a surprise, it's what they've been saying for a couple of years they were going to do. The best thing that can happen is for TX to kick the TSA out, then for other states to follow us.

I actually lived south of San Antonio until I was 10 and I return there as often as I can, so I understand that. Out here in Chesterfield VA, we are the same. So to honestly effect my family it would take them setting up at the local Kroger (think HEB) and or having a traffic checkpoint to effect us often. However I find even one pat down of that nature unacceptable to my kids and I. We do use the trains when we visit my in-laws in the "Peoples Republic of New York" on occasion to visit NYC. Of course if this become common place we won't even do that. However, I do think of those that use mass transit on a regular basis, and I worry for them. I do hope for TX to kick the TSA in the shins (or someplace even more sensitive), and then for my state to follow TX lead. We have quite nice gun laws here in VA, and we don't much like being told what to do either (at least beyond Northern VA that is). VA state flag has a picture of a person standing on top of another person with a spear in the person on the ground's throat and under it says "Thus to all tyrants." So we can hope right?

[sjfcontrol]

Virginia State Flag -- I LIKE!

[terryg]

You know I remember a poem that went like this "First they came for the Jews, but I was not a jew." We could rewrite it and say "First they came for the airports, but I did not fly. Then they came to the train stations, but I don't take trains. Then they came to the bus stations, so I drove my own car instead. Then they came to the malls, so I shopped online. Finally they came to my door....." Right now we are 3/4 of the way through that little poem.

Using that poem is genius - I hope you don't mind if I steal it and complete it:

First they came to the airports, but I did not speak out because I wanted to be "safe"

Then they came to the train stations, but I did not speak out because I do not take trains

Then they came to the malls, but I did not speak out because I could shop online

Then they came to my door ... and the fourth amendment is no more

[mamabearCali]

You know I remember a poem that went like this "First they came for the Jews, but I was not a jew." We could rewrite it and say "First they came for the airports, but I did not fly. Then they came to the train stations, but I don't take trains. Then they came to the bus stations, so I drove my own car instead. Then they came to the malls, so I shopped online. Finally they came to my door....." Right now we are 3/4 of the way through that little poem.

Using that poem is genius - I hope you don't mind if I steal it and complete it:

First they came to the airports, but I did not speak out because I wanted to be "safe"

Then they came to the train stations, but I did not speak out because I do not take trains

Then they came to the malls, but I did not speak out because I could shop online

Then they came to my door ... and the fourth amendment is no more

Be my guest I like yours very much!

[Dave2]

Well it is not so hypothetical now...they are going to bus stations, train stations, metro stations, and High School Proms apparently.

High School proms? Really?!? How are they justifying that one?

[canvasbck]

The TSA will continue to spread it's tentacles. I have recently learned that the TSA will be taking over pipelines next. We had some TSA investigators come by our plant recently to introduce themselves and talk with us about the impending of pipeline security enforcement by them.

Can't wait!

[SewTexas]

I'm pretty sure it's not the TSA taking over high school proms....many high schools have metal detectors at their front doors already don't they, this is simply doing it at the prom, what's the difference?

[mamabearCali]

I'm pretty sure it's not the TSA taking over high school proms....many high schools have metal detectors at their front doors already don't they, this is simply doing it at the prom, what's the difference?

It happened in Arizona.....http://www.kob.com/article/stories/S2122102.shtml" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[sjfcontrol]

I'm pretty sure it's not the TSA taking over high school proms....many high schools have metal detectors at their front doors already don't they, this is simply doing it at the prom, what's the difference?

It happened in Arizona.....http://www.kob.com/article/stories/S2122102.shtml" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Saturday night, a certified TSA official will be at the Santa Fe High School prom to oversee student searches.

This all comes after two Capital High School students, sisters, filed a lawsuit saying they were groped by a security agent at Capital High School's prom last month. On Friday, the court ordered Santa Fe Public Schools and the security company ASI to provide at least one TSA certified person at the Santa Fe High School prom and the Capital High School graduation.

Good Heavens! Got a problem with security groping people? Who 'ya gona call? TSA!

The patients have taken over the asylum!