TX rep to author OC

[TexasRedneck]

It's uncommon to see IPs used outside of their geographic area. But I guess this is one.

Come to Houston. I'll buy you an excellent dinner.

Man, after accusin' me of bein' from Virginia, the least you can do is come HERE to New Braunfels an' buy my dinner!!!

I'll PM ya in a bit - next time I'm over, I'll try to "hook up" with ya!

You sicko's out there leave it alone......

[Skiprr]

All your posts have come in from Internet Prorotocols originating in Virginia via a range owned by RoadRunner, "RR-SOUTHEAST-BLK2," out of Herdon, Virginia.

It's rare to see ISP-assigned IPs used outside of their geographic area. But what the heck.

Come to Houston. I'll buy you and your wife dinner at Taste of Texas.

Seriously.

[jsimmons]

Mr. Cotton has a plan to push OC already drawn up. There are a number of additional groups OUTSIDE TSRA that want OC. It's time for everybody involved to man up, throw down, share info, and get this thing underway. Why is our tenure as Texas citizens even an issue? Why is the restoration of our 2nd amendment rights any less important because an activist group from another state is pushing for one aspect of said rights?

Mr. Cotton, if you have a plan drawn up, and you don't want to work directly with OCDO, send it to the LSCDL people along with a list of people in Austin they might want to talk to. I see no issue with the TSRA endorsing any and all efforts to restore our rights, especially if another group is willing to do the actual legwork.

I've gone from interested, through concerned, into annoyed, and ended up at just plain angry. This whole thing is freakin' absurd.

[Charles L. Cotton]

Mr. Cotton, if you have a plan drawn up, and you don't want to work directly with OCDO, send it to the LSCDL people along with a list of people in Austin they might want to talk to.

Please read by earlier post to see why I will not do what you demand. And give a list of my contacts to someone else so they can use my name to get in the door . . . you cannot be serious!

As for working with OCDO, I'll repeat what I said in 2009. OCDO doesn't want to work with the TSRA or NRA; they want both organizations to blindly endorse whatever they want to file. The last thing they want is NRA/TSRA carrying on OC bill. I have no idea about LSCDL, but as I posted elsewhere, LSCDL is far more than a "gun group." Lending an organization's name and reputation to any organization that deals with issues other than gun rights is very risky since their positions on some non-gun issues could alienate NRA/TSRA's members and supporters. For example, regardless where they fall on the issues of abortion, prayer in school, or illegal immigration, a large segment of the population is going to be offended and neither the NRA or TSRA can afford to lose members and support because of non-gun issues.

I've gone from interested, through concerned, into annoyed, and ended up at just plain angry. This whole thing is freakin' absurd.

What's absurd?

Chas.

[Heartland Patriot]

@Charles L. Cotton:

Sir, as I read one of your earlier replies in regards to the dangers that OC holds for CC folks, you talked about one customer complaining to a store owner and the store owner rapidly putting up 30.06 signage to avoid having to deal with the hassles. By that token, it seems to me that the entire State of Texas, a fairly conservative state by any measure, is at the mercy of a handful of hyperventilating "hoplophobes"...why is that? Once again, I'm trying to learn something here. I'll say that I have already learned things, like having an arrest record even if the judge takes one look at the file and throws the thing out, like the poor gentleman in Round Rock now has to deal with (as well as him being poorer). I do understand that politics is a dirty business full of backroom deals and stomach-twisting compromises. But something is terribly wrong when a handful of folks who would be much better off in Berkeley, California can dictate the nature of Second Amendment interpretation and implementation in the State of Texas.

Again, for the record, I am in NO WAY connected to any OC group or organization...and I AM located in the Fort Worth area!

[baldeagle]

I've been reading this thread with a great deal of interest, not to mention amusement. I'm ambivalent on open carry. If it passed, I probably wouldn't change my carry habits very much. If it doesn't pass, I still will carry every day. But I have to say that, in general, the people on the OC side of the argument seem to me to be very enthusiastic but equally naive. Politics is a difficult and frustrating game to play. You're constantly striking a balance between what you'd like to have and what you know the other side can't prevent you from having. The linchpin is public opinion.

If anything should demonstrate to you how fickle public opinion is and how hard it is to influence public opinion directly, recent events at the national level should do that. Just two years ago the Democrats swept into power with an overwhelming mandate from the people. They were fed up with the Republicans and wanted change. The Democrats misread that mandate to mean that they could do anything they wanted and ram it down the throats of the nation without consideration of the other side. The end result two years later was the greatest change of power in Congress in many, many decades.

There are lessons to be learned from that if the OC crowd will listen. 1) The arguments you may think are persuasive often are inconsequential. 2) Arguments you may think are silly could have great power to resonate with the people. 3) The mandate you think you have can evaporate in one election cycle like smoke in the wind if you mishandle the mandate and run roughshod over your opposition. 4) Real change doesn't come because of activists. It comes because those activists hit a chord with "the people" and their ideas gain the power to become politically persuasive (e.g. the Tea Party).

Right now some people think that because there are 99 Republicans in the Texas House the Republicans can do anything they want. That's precisely what the Democrats in Washington thought two years ago. Two years later they lost the House by an overwhelming landslide and lost the power to ram things through in the Senate. If national Republicans handle the next two years well, Democrats could lose the Senate as well. The same is true in Texas IF it's handled well. If it's not, the political landscape could change dramatically in just two years.

OC people are correct. Citizens should be able to carry guns any way they want anywhere they want any time they want. The problem is, a large number of citizens don't believe that. They are the ones you must persuade. Ram a law down their throats because you have the majority (think Obamacare) and you could be dealing with a backlash that removes more of your gun rights than you presently have. That is where Charles is right. Ramming OC through the legislature carries the risk of increasing the usage of 30.06 signs across the state. OC people need to at least admit that that possibility exists.

As for the demands for Charles to do something about it, he has been. For more than 30 years he has tirelessly worked behind the scenes to regain our lost rights. He has accomplished much. There is still much to be regained. But let's be honest. Outside our little group (2% of the population?) and the halls of the legislature, nobody knows Charles from Adam. His influence is far greater than his notoriety. For him to jeopardize that influence by aligning himself with a strident group demanding their rights would be foolhardy. He might gain some notoriety but he would lose significant influence that took decades for him to gain.

At times like these, one does well to turn to the Bible for advice. Whether or not you are a Christian is irrelevant. The wisdom in the Bible is timeless and not exclusive to religionists.

Ecclesiastes 9:11
New International Version (©1984)
I have seen something else under the sun: The race is not to the swift or the battle to the strong, nor does food come to the wise or wealth to the brilliant or favor to the learned; but time and chance happen to them all.

[Charles L. Cotton]

@Charles L. Cotton:

Sir, as I read one of your earlier replies in regards to the dangers that OC holds for CC folks, you talked about one customer complaining to a store owner and the store owner rapidly putting up 30.06 signage to avoid having to deal with the hassles. By that token, it seems to me that the entire State of Texas, a fairly conservative state by any measure, is at the mercy of a handful of hyperventilating "hoplophobes"...why is that? Once again, I'm trying to learn something here. I'll say that I have already learned things, like having an arrest record even if the judge takes one look at the file and throws the thing out, like the poor gentleman in Round Rock now has to deal with (as well as him being poorer). I do understand that politics is a dirty business full of backroom deals and stomach-twisting compromises. But something is terribly wrong when a handful of folks who would be much better off in Berkeley, California can dictate the nature of Second Amendment interpretation and implementation in the State of Texas.

Again, for the record, I am in NO WAY connected to any OC group or organization...and I AM located in the Fort Worth area!

That was merely an example to show the impact a few people openly carrying can have on the public. It has nothing to do with politics, it focuses solely on a business owner facing complaints by customers.

Insulting people by name-calling doesn't help us win them to our side of the issue. These are precisely the people we need to support us. We aren't going to win the support of Sarah Brady and her ilk, and we already NRA members on our side. We need the millions of people who are not anti-gun but who also aren't active in support of the Second Amendment to get involved on our side of the issue. Obviously, I'm not talking about open-carry specifically, but about gun rights in general.

Chas.

[Heartland Patriot]

@Charles L. Cotton:

Alright, I think I see where you are going...the trick is to chip away at the thing a little bit at a time, and allow public opinion to catch up with each new thing...thus the Parking Lot Bill and Campus Carry (and I didn't mean to foul mouth anyone except those that I feel have it coming, i.e the rabid Brady types)...however, can't we at least write our State representatives and ask for some language clarification? Even if I only post sporadically on here, I have read quite a few comments where people have concerns about situations like the Round Rock unpleasantness...and actually don't end up carrying despite the efforts they went to get the permit or even don't renew their permit due to those concerns. I understand that you can conceal deeply enough to avoid detection, but you can also do so to the point where you couldn't get the device into operation rapidly enough to make a difference, in the unfortunate event...not to mention the lessened amount of clothing most folks wear due to our fine summers and the attendant difficulties with carry during those months. I apologize for beating that horse so thoroughly, but they are legitimate concerns.

[The Annoyed Man]

...not to mention the lessened amount of clothing most folks wear due to our fine summers and the attendant difficulties with carry during those months. I apologize for beating that horse so thoroughly, but they are legitimate concerns.

It gets plenty hot in the DFW area during the summer months. I have no difficulty concealing anything from a pocket carried .357 snubbie to a full sized steel framed 1911.

[Bullwhip]

Funny that our gun rights lobbyists can work with everybody except other gun rights folks.

[Charles L. Cotton]

Funny that our gun rights lobbyists can work with everybody except other gun rights folks.

What do you mean by this? Lobbyists work with legislators, they are the people who pass bills, not "other gun rights folks."

Chas.

[Texas Size 11]

I've been reading this thread with a great deal of interest, not to mention amusement. I'm ambivalent on open carry. If it passed, I probably wouldn't change my carry habits very much. If it doesn't pass, I still will carry every day.

Same here. I'll CC even if it is passed. The only thing OC means to me is that I could accidentally expose my weapon with no issues.

[G.A. Heath]

I've been reading this thread with a great deal of interest, not to mention amusement. I'm ambivalent on open carry. If it passed, I probably wouldn't change my carry habits very much. If it doesn't pass, I still will carry every day.

Same here. I'll CC even if it is passed. The only thing OC means to me is that I could accidentally expose my weapon with no issues.

Already can, seeing how accidentally would not meet "Intentional failure to conceal."

[Bullwhip]

Funny that our gun rights lobbyists can work with everybody except other gun rights folks.

What do you mean by this? Lobbyists work with legislators, they are the people who pass bills, not "other gun rights folks."

Chas.

I mean I don't know why folks who share 99% of the same ideas can't get along.

Not taken one side or another. I want open carry to be legal but would probably conceal most of the time. I want "constitutional carry" to be legal. Not going to work against anybody's bill that makes our guns rights stronger. Not going to bad mouth them for trying even if they lose. Parking lot, campus, Arizona style, lets get all we can get, and I don't care who writes the bill or who supports it.

Its a lot like church. Two churches with 99% same beliefs have a big skism (sp?) over the last 1%. One side quotes Paul about "disputable matters", the other side gets mad and says its not disputable, it's a basic principal of faith and they both go away mad. No sense in that, keep the big goal in site and cheer anybody who gets closer.

[terryg]

I mean I don't know why folks who share 99% of the same ideas can't get along.

Not taken one side or another. I want open carry to be legal but would probably conceal most of the time. I want "constitutional carry" to be legal. Not going to work against anybody's bill that makes our guns rights stronger. Not going to bad mouth them for trying even if they lose. Parking lot, campus, Arizona style, lets get all we can get, and I don't care who writes the bill or who supports it.

Its a lot like church. Two churches with 99% same beliefs have a big skism (sp?) over the last 1%. One side quotes Paul about "disputable matters", the other side gets mad and says its not disputable, it's a basic principal of faith and they both go away mad. No sense in that, keep the big goal in site and cheer anybody who gets closer.

Because it doesn't matter that 99% or so of the ideas are the same. If there is disagreement about what tactics should be used, then in practical application - there is still a BIG rift. If one group, by pushing for OC that will probably only benefit a small portion of the carrying public manages to, yet again, dis-rail progress on campus carry and parking lot language that will benefit a much larger portion of the carrying public, then the net effect is a negative one.

And campus carry has the potential to derive much longer term benefits. Having young minds gaining knowledge and acceptance of the safe exercise of the RKBA right on the bastions of the liberal propaganda institutions could be huge for 2A reforms 10 to 20 years down the road.