Background Checks Expanded

[carlson1]

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/04/11/us/p ... hecks.html

The Biden administration has approved the broadest expansion of federal background checks in decades in an attempt to regulate a fast-growing shadow market of weapons sold online, at gun shows and through private sellers that has contributed to gun violence.

Under a rule released on Thursday, the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives will require anyone “engaged in the business” of selling guns at a profit to register as a federally licensed firearms dealer. That means those sellers must run background criminal and mental health checks on potential buyers.

[chasfm11]

So here is a question. If I sell my car, am I engaged in the "business" of auto selling? If I sell my old sofa or desk, am i a furniture seller? Most of non-table sellers that I have seen at gun shows are individuals selling their own guns, not guns they specifically acquired for resale. The same could probably be said for anyone selling a gun on this forum. Are you then a firearm dealer?

I did not read the article because I refuse to deal with the NYT paywall. But i heard the same reports on the radio and the justice department spokesperson defending the expansion as preventing 3 million people who should not have guns from getting them. I assume that number comes from the reject rate on the current background check system. Conversely, what is the number of people who should not have gotten guns under the current rules but got them anyway do to the lax reporting of those individual situations by various governmental entities who had that information? I would bet that few of those in inpatient mental health facilities have their names in the background check data base. I'm guessing that there are more convicted felons with "clean" records in that data base than there are with their data included. And then there is the whole current justice system which doesn't prosecute a lot of the violent offenders. Are they blocked from gun purchases? I doubt it.

This is more propaganda.

[Keith B]

It’s nothing but a ‘feel good bill’ for the liberals just in time for the election.

Admittedly, there are numerous persons setting up at gun shows selling their ‘personal’ guns, that are buying and then putting them up for sale quickly, but unless they start tracking every gun sold at shows, there’ll never be a way to figure out who’s buying just to resell the gun.

Bottom line, it’s never gonna stop straw purchases and resale of stolen guns.

[Excaliber]

It’s nothing but a ‘feel good bill’ for the liberals just in time for the election.

Admittedly, there are numerous persons setting up at gun shows selling their ‘personal’ guns, that are buying and then putting them up for sale quickly, but unless they start tracking every gun sold at shows, there’ll never be a way to figure out who’s buying just to resell the gun.

Bottom line, it’s never gonna stop straw purchases and resale of stolen guns.

This new rule is not the end game.

When you think about it, the only way they could enforce this provision against cash or barter sales is to have a database of every gun everyone has so they could track movement. With exemptions for criminals, of course.

Watch for another new "rule" coming soon.

[mayor]

"...thus keeping guns out of the hands of violent criminals,” said Deputy Attorney General Lisa Monaco.
What planet do these people live on?
https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/justice- ... rms-dealer

[Chemist45]

Never forget. They could not do this without the active support of Texas Senator John Cornyn.
He helped the democrats push the "Bipartisan safer communities act" through congress.
That is the law that lets ATF write new rules.
It also provides for Red Flag Laws - you know, where the neighborhood Karen can drop a dime on you and they come collect your guns.
Cornyn is no friend of gun owners.
Remember that when he runs for re-election.

[Ruark]

There are many, many people out there, including some legislators, who believe you don't need a NICS check when you buy a gun at a gun show, that gun shows are like some kind of "gun buffet" for anybody who wants to buy one.

[Ruark]

Cornyn is not your friend. Unfortunately, he wins elections with his good ol' Texas boy optics....

[Rafe]

There are many, many people out there, including some legislators, who believe you don't need a NICS check when you buy a gun at a gun show, that gun shows are like some kind of "gun buffet" for anybody who wants to buy one.

Even worse is the perpetuation of the myth that guns can be bought online without a NICS check. The only way to legally buy a gun online is to conduct a subsequent face-to-face personal sale and transfer, or to have it shipped to an FFL who does the paperwork and submits the NICS check (unless a valid LTC is presented, but all paperwork is still completed and filed).

If I agree to sell you a firearm on the forum, for example, it is not an online gun sale. All we do is communicate online. I have to either meet you face-to-face to conduct the personal sales transaction, or I ship the gun to the FFL of your choice. You can pay me with an online, digital payment method, but you cannot take possession of the firearm unless it's a personal face-to-face exchange or through a federally licensed dealer whose responsibility is to follow all applicable laws in transferring the firearm to you.

Reading almost anything in the media about this stuff leaves the uninformed thinking that all they have to do go online, enter a credit card number, and UPS will deliver a gun right to your door. If we polled people who consider themselves to be democrats, I'll bet 90% of them would think that's exactly what an "online gun sale" means.

[mayor]

Cornyn is not your friend. Unfortunately, he wins elections with his good ol' Texas boy optics....
cornyn.JPG

Fact. I have no idea how this thread made it to the top of my list for me to reply to.

[mayor]

There are many, many people out there, including some legislators, who believe you don't need a NICS check when you buy a gun at a gun show, that gun shows are like some kind of "gun buffet" for anybody who wants to buy one.

Even worse is the perpetuation of the myth that guns can be bought online without a NICS check. The only way to legally buy a gun online is to conduct a subsequent face-to-face personal sale and transfer, or to have it shipped to an FFL who does the paperwork and submits the NICS check (unless a valid LTC is presented, but all paperwork is still completed and filed).

If I agree to sell you a firearm on the forum, for example, it is not an online gun sale. All we do is communicate online. I have to either meet you face-to-face to conduct the personal sales transaction, or I ship the gun to the FFL of your choice. You can pay me with an online, digital payment method, but you cannot take possession of the firearm unless it's a personal face-to-face exchange or through a federally licensed dealer whose responsibility is to follow all applicable laws in transferring the firearm to you.

Reading almost anything in the media about this stuff leaves the uninformed thinking that all they have to do go online, enter a credit card number, and UPS will deliver a gun right to your door. If we polled people who consider themselves to be democrats, I'll bet 90% of them would think that's exactly what an "online gun sale" means.

Also fact.

[tomneal]

FFL?

I am not an expert in the new rules but...
I got a good nights sleep last night and
I've watched some youtube videos

you cannot sell personal protection firearms?
you can't sell guns for a profit?
It looks like you can't even sell to a dealer if you want to make a profit

The law was changed in the summer of 2022 so guns you've sold since then

Without being viewed as a dealer. (FFL)

So...
Should I contact the BATFE to become an FFL to realign my personal firearms (sell some, buy others) to the way I shoot now and intend to shoot in the future?
Or
Would it just be less risky to destroy the ones I don't want and avoid the 10 years in jail and/or $10K fine?

GOSH!

[RPBrown]

FFL?

I am not an expert in the new rules but...
I got a good nights sleep last night and
I've watched some youtube videos

you cannot sell personal protection firearms?
you can't sell guns for a profit?
It looks like you can't even sell to a dealer if you want to make a profit

The law was changed in the summer of 2022 so guns you've sold since then

Without being viewed as a dealer. (FFL)

So...
Should I contact the BATFE to become an FFL to realign my personal firearms (sell some, buy others) to the way I shoot now and intend to shoot in the future?
Or
Would it just be less risky to destroy the ones I don't want and avoid the 10 years in jail and/or $10K fine?

GOSH!

Or do like the rest of us, lose them in a boating accident