Waller County

[Overthehill]

AG Paxton sued Waller County back in 2016 for posting the entire court house and yet I have been unable to locate any decision in the case. Anyone know what did or is happening on this issue?

[ELB]

I don’t believe any of the courthouse cases are going to move forward in court until the case against the city of Austin is finally resolved. They all involve similar issues and I’m sure the AG sees no point in expending resources fighting the same battle in several different trial courts. He has appealed at least part of the Austin trial court decision against the city of Austin to the appellate level. I believe once an appellate decision is reached then that will apply to other cities besides Austin. It will of course be possible to appeal that decision to the supreme court of Texas, but If it’s not a given that the Texas Supreme Court or take it, and I believe the appellate decision will serve as law for Texas until it does or doesn’t.

[Overthehill]

Thank you

[ELB]

I don't think the AG is being lazy, and I would prefer that he get this particular case (Paxton v City of Austin) right because it will set precedent for how licensed carry is handled in courthouses throughout Texas. The speed of which the case advances is mostly at the mercy of the judges hearing the case, since they and there schedulers determine when to fit it in among all the other cases. Not to mention all the other cases that the OAG is fielding.

I have found that Paxton has submitted his brief on this appeal, but I still need to read it and I will post on it in the same thread where the rest of the case has been discussed, the 30.06 Ruling Letters.

Just at first glance tho, it appears the AG is trying to greatly increase the fine that City of Austin will have to pay for their violation. The trial judge fined them only for the days when the AG's investigators, posing as citizen LTC holders, were denied entry to City Hall while court was in session. This amounted to $9,000. The AG is arguing that the City should be fined for every day since the original complaint, to the tune of $5 MILLION.

And by the way, it is not the AG's fault that he does not pursue criminal charges. The unauthorized posting of the signs by a government entity is a civil matter, not a criminal matter. If you don't like that then talk to the Legislature, don't blame the AG.

[dlh]

Holcomb won in the appeals court which remanded the case back to the trial court to determine Holcomb's damages including his costs and attorneys fees. Have not heard what happened since then. I think the Supreme Court of Texas refused to hear the case.

http://www.search.txcourts.gov/SearchMe ... 6470cc5d0c

Have not heard anything about the intervention action filed by the A.G. though.

[Overthehill]

Will keep my fingers crossed that our AG triumphs in the appeal. San Patricio County Court House is 30.06 and 30.07, Sheriff's Office has no guns circle. Have not filed waiting for outcome on the Austin and Waller County Case. Thanks for all the updates.

[Aggie_engr]

It looks like there has been movement in the right direction on this topic, glad to see the AG is busy.

Meanwhile, the city of Galveston recently got a slap on the wrist.

https://www.houstonchronicle.com/news/ ... 998406.php

[ELB]

And by the way, it is not the AG's fault that he does not pursue criminal charges. The unauthorized posting of the signs by a government entity is a civil matter, not a criminal matter. If you don't like that then talk to the Legislature, don't blame the AG.

Okay, I am confused now.
I thought that by posting illegal signage in violation of the state law, they are breaking said law and thus making this a criminal matter.
Am I misunderstanding the law? (I am not a lawyer) So I ask seriously, where is my logic failing me?

IANAL and all that:

Not everything that is illegal is criminal. "Illegal" is contrary to any law, civil or criminal. Civil violations are generally punishable by fines (only), but criminal violations are generally punishable by imprisonment as well as fines. A parking violation is a civil offense, punching someone in the nose without justification is a criminal offense. (I don't know of an example, I think it might possible in some cases to stack up enough civil violations to become a criminal matter, but there would have to be a criminal law to this effect).

The prohibition of posting signs or otherwise forbidding licensed carry on the property of government entities has been in the law for, I dunno, I think at least 20 years, but it was not in the Penal Code or other criminal law code, it was in the Government Code, which is a civil (not criminal) law code. Until the Legislative session in 2015 there was no penalty whatsoever for anyone or any government entity violating that portion of the Government Code.

In the Regular Session of the 85th Legislature in 2015 SB 273 was passed, which put in place CIVIL penalties for state agencies and political subdivisions of the state (not individuals) who violate the Government (civil) Code with respect to illegally prohibiting licensed carry on government property. The civil penalties were limited to a fine levied against the agency or subdivision (not a person) of not less than $1,000 nor more than $1, 500 for the first violation and not less than $10,000 nor more than $10,500 for the second and subsequent violations. The AG has to prove the violations in court before the fines can be levied, and that is the extent of the enforcement mechanism. There are no criminal penalties for the individuals who violate this particular law, so there is no criminal penalty for the AG to pursue.

[ELB]

Now I understand well.
Thank you very much for this clear explanation, sir.

You're welcome. As IANAL, I hope it is also the correct explanation.

[Aggie_engr]

Just posting a follow up on the outcome of Waller county vs Attorney General Paxton. It appears that the Waller county courthouse signs will remain. What, if any, are the next steps to take?

News article
https://montgomerycountypolicereporter ... axton/amp/

Video of district judge Trey Duhon giving an interview about the judgement
https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=em ... BBmVfJL6-I

[srothstein]

I am also not a lawyer but I think you stated this very well and I generally agree. I just wanted to make one minor technical correction. If the parking violation is for violating state law, it is a criminal violation and the law presumes the registered owner of the vehicle to be the person who parked it. If the parking violation is a municipal violation (like parking meters or no parking zones) then it may be a criminal or a civil matter. The municipality gets to decide how they want it considered. If they decide it will be a civil offense, they must pass an ordinance to that effect, otherwise it is a state violation. In both cases, state law says they are to presume the registered owner is the person who parked the vehicle.

This is covered in chapters 681 and 682 of the Transportation Code.

[ELB]

What, if any, are the next steps to take?

I doubt that anything further will happen in this case specifically because the same general issue is being litigated against the city of Austin and it is at the appeals court level. In every other courthouse case were the attorney general has found against the posting of courthouse signs, he has suspended further action while the case against the city of Austin is worked out. Once that has been sorted out at the appeal level, or even at the Texas Supreme Court level, then the AG will have a tool to enforce the law against the other misbehaving court houses.

Waller County was a special case and that they sued a private individual for exercising his first amendment rights and his rights under the law to complain about the sign. That highly biased article fails to mention that Waller County was forced to pay damages to this individual because of their legal mishandling of the case.

Waller County is indeed a special case, they seem to have a black cloud of… trouble… overhanging their government.