Notify LEO You're Armed?

[thatguyoverthere]

In a traffic stop or other interaction with police, some states require licensed concealed carriers to notify the police that they are armed. Some states require that information from the concealed carrier only if the officer asks for that specific information. And still other states do not require a concealed carrier to disclose that information to the police at all.

It has always been my intention, if ever involved in a traffic stop while legally armed outside of Texas, that I would simplify the possible confusion as to whether I was required to notify or not, by simply going ahead and (carefully) notifying the officer that I was legally armed, whether that state required that notification from me or not.

This short article written by a former-prosecutor-now-defense lawyer has caused me to reconsider that idea.

A brief quote from the article (emphasis mine):

A potential outcome of informing an officer that you have a firearm is that the officer might then have the ability to perform what is called a Terry Stop or a Terry Frisk. ... a Terry Stop allows a police officer to remove you from your vehicle, pat down all occupants of the vehicle (using the sense of touch to determine if they are armed), as well as search the entire passenger compartment of the vehicle including any locked containers that might reasonably house a weapon. In other words, telling a police officer you have a firearm on you or in your vehicle can serve as a waiver of your Fourth Amendment rights and allow the officer to conduct a warrantless search.

Not that I have anything to hide, but IF that information is correct, why take the risk of subjecting yourself to that unpleasantness if it is not required?

Just food for thought.

http://concealednation.org/2017/03/inte ... -analysis/

[carlson1]

Very interesting article. I believe I will continue with what I have done in the past and that is when I am contacted by LE and asked for ID I will hand over my DL and LTC. I don't think it is smart to tell an officer on the side of the road, "just so you know I am armed."

[treadlightly]

Be aware of your situation. Read the officer as best you can and act appropriately. Don't be squirrelly, be friendly, and speak the truth.

I can't say that will avoid a bad reaction on the part of the LEO, but I think it probably will.

If you don't know the officer, hand over both id's, keep your hands in plain sight, and answer any questions truthfully.

That's my plan. So far my own encounters with police have been very cordial.

[C-dub]

If I'm asked for ID as part of a stop or some other valid reason besides just general conversation I'll present my DL and LTC since we are required to by law. If the LEO then asks if I am armed I'll answer truthfully and we'll just go from there.

[Liberty]

I think for the most part the article is full of calico bass, intended to collect links and sell books. A law abiding CHL/LTC owner is not going to be subject to a Terry search at a routine traffic stop as a result of informing a cop you are armed. The claim that presenting an LTC and informing an officer you are armed if asked can result in a Terry search which will allow an officer to search a locked box? I've never heard of such a thing, at least in the last 10 years.

I looked a little further though and found that there are several states that have a required duty to inform. In other states I would present my CHL if stopped, and let the officer ask the questions, just as I would in Texas. I am not sure if that is good enough. If presenting an out of state CHL is proper notification. Do I have to say, "I gotta big ole shooter on me officer"?

[Jusme]

Yeah, I think the writer of the article, is trying to make people afraid of unlawful search. Always know the law of whatever State you happen to find yourself, and follow those laws. The justification of a "Terry Frisk" would require that the LEO be able to articulate that you, not only were armed, but that you posed a risk to him/her. If you are in a State that requires you to inform, then doing so should not cause alarm to the officer, if you posed a threat, you wouldn't announce that potential threat, beforehand, you are simply following the law.

If you are carrying in Texas, and are stopped, simply give the LEO your LTC along with your DL. In all of my traffic stops, both of them, the officer simply looked at my LTC, one asked if I had my gun, and it's location. no muss no fuss. I can't imagine that other State's LEOs, would react any differently, unless it is one where carrying is prohibited. JMHO

[bdgyeah]

I agree with others who commented that the author has ulterior motives for writing this article. He begins the article stating that LTC holders are some of the most law abiding citizens out there. I can reasonably assume that LEO's also believe/know this. I will not be afraid of following the law, whether doing so or not ends up with me being Terry searched. At the end of the day, LEO's have a job to do, and I am going to be understanding when they do this job.

When reading this article, It sounded like a liberal author trying to use the fear, of the use of a Terry Frisk, to advance an agenda against Terry Frisks/Stops, by applying it to a situation, that may involved LTC holders.

I know others may disagree, but I like the idea of a Terry Stop. For me it's a question of, how many felons have been jailed, and how many murders, rapes, etc., have been prevented, versus how many people got their feelings hurt?

[Soccerdad1995]

In Texas, I just hand over the LTC with my DL. In Louisiana, there is a requirement to inform, so I will do so while choosing my words VERY carefully. I research the rules for other states before going there with a firearm.

IANAL, but it seems a bit disingenuous to say that someone should be subject to additional non-consensual searches because they did exactly what the state law required them to do. Then again, the judicial branch is basically making a mockery of itself lately, so I would believe just about anything.

[Abraham]

In Texas, I will show my DL and my LTC to LE, but unless asked, I won't notify I'm armed.

It's not impolite or illegal to keep my yap closed regarding my status of being armed, again, unless asked by LE.

[steveincowtown]

In Texas, I will show my DL and my LTC to LE, but unless asked, I won't notify I'm armed.

It's not impolite or illegal to keep my yap closed regarding my status of being armed, again, unless asked by LE.

Two other points:

#1> Any LEO worth his salt should presume each and every encounter is an armed encounter.

#2> With so many incidents of fake LEOs pulling people over, I have a real issue with the fact that we have to notify in Texas.

Unless in a state where required to do so, I do not notify the LEO of anything until him finding out is eminent.

[ScottDLS]

In the States in the Federal 4th Circuit (roughly MD to SC), your carrying status results in you losing some of your 4th and 5th amendment rights, per a 4th circus court recent idiotic decision.

[rotor]

Never volunteer more than required.
You guys/girls seem to be pulled over an awful lot.

[Soccerdad1995]

In Texas, I will show my DL and my LTC to LE, but unless asked, I won't notify I'm armed.

It's not impolite or illegal to keep my yap closed regarding my status of being armed, again, unless asked by LE.

Two other points:

#1> Any LEO worth his salt should presume each and every encounter is an armed encounter.

#2> With so many incidents of fake LEOs pulling people over, I have a real issue with the fact that we have to notify in Texas.

Unless in a state where required to do so, I do not notify the LEO of anything until him finding out is eminent.

Regarding your point #2, why would any even half way sane person decide to take on an armed victim when they could just give that person a "warning" and choose another victim who won't be so well equipped to fight back?

Yes I know that criminals don't think like the rest of us, but are they really going out of their way to take on the toughest victims they can find?

[mot7981]

Thought I’d weigh in since I recently had an encounter with an LEO on a routine traffic stop. It was about 10:30 PM and I was in a neighborhood (not my own) to look after a friends dog. I totally rolled through a stop and didn’t see the officer parked down the block. As soon as he pulled me over I got out my TDL, CHL and proof of insurance and put them on the dash. I then rolled down the windows, put on the dome light and put my hands on the wheel in the 10 & 2 position. He came up to the window and explained why he had pulled me over. He glanced at my TDL and then proceeded to thank me for being considerate of his position. He then told me to come to a complete stop next time and sent me on my way. He didn’t even ask if or where I was carrying. He was very polite and all in all it was a pleasant experience. Full disclosure, I was in the wife’s Prius so probably didn’t look too threatening.

[The Annoyed Man]

Five LEO "contacts" since I've had my CHL. Two of them were motor vehicle related. Three were other things, like identifying myself to a responding police officer when I accidentally set off my church's alarm system off hours because I had entered my alarm code incorrectly; or once to an officer responding to a burglar alarm at my house; and once when identifying myself to the officer who was handling my wife's hit and run accident.

In the three non-vehicular situations, the officer took my CHL when I handed it to him, gave it a 1.5 second glance, and handed it back to me without comment. In the first of the two MV incidents (both were for "fix it" tickets), the first officer asked me if I was armed after seeing my license. When I said yes, he replied with "tell you what, you don't show me yours, and I won't show you mine". The other officer took it when I handed it to him, said "I don't need this" and handed it back to me, and went back to his car with my TDL to write the ticket.

The law does not require us to verbally volunteer notification. We are only required to notify when we are asked for ID, and the required method of notification is to present the carry license along with your TDL or state-issued ID. Otherwise, I think it is "bad policy", so to speak, to tell the nice policemans "I HAVE A GUN!"......especially if your eyes are buggy and you're acting nervous! Show the license if you are armed when you are asked for ID, and then let the officer ask if you're actually armed or not, and then tell the truth. If they don't care, they won't ask. And actually, the way the law is written - notification by presenting of license only being required IF you are armed - if you present the license, I think they'll probably assume that you are armed, and only ask by way of confirmation.

I would just present the LTC when asked for ID even if I wasn't armed at the moment (which is never the case anyway) just as a "hey I'm a good guy" sign. It can't hurt your cause any, and it just might help (like maybe getting a warning instead of a ticket, etc.).