Central Texas College in Killeen has adopted two campus carry policies

[NotRPB]

Central Texas College in Killeen has adopted two campus carry policies
Monday, January 23, 2017
http://www.twcnews.com/tx/austin/news/2 ... icies.html

The Central Texas College in Killeen policy requires all handguns be carried without a chambered round of ammunition.

(The UT Regents [University Texas Board of Regents] rejected the...empty-chamber rule, saying it could increase the risk of accidental discharge on campus.)

The second Central Texas College in Killeen policy allows occupants of private offices to make their offices "gun-free" zones.

[george72]

Do they have the legal ability to require that? If so, that is crazy. If you're going to let someone carry a gun, let them carry it how they need/train to carry it.

[puma guy]

How do they address revolvers? An empty chamber is moot in a double action revolver, it simply reduces round count by one. Stupid is as stupid does. Our legislators need to put a stop to all the shenanigans by politicians and bureaucrats to usurp the intent of the laws they write.

[Charles L. Cotton]

Both policies appear to violate the law. The law allows colleges to decide where guns can be carried, not how they may be carried. Also, giving options to ban handguns in offices will make statutorily-required widespread notice difficult if not impossible to provide.

Chas.

[E.Marquez]

Both policies appear to violate the law. The law allows colleges to decide where guns can be carried, not how they may be carried. Also, giving options to ban handguns in offices will make statutorily-required widespread notice difficult if not impossible to provide.

Chas.

Chas, how do you recommended dealing with this.. It effects me directly

[AF-Odin]

Would like CTC to adopt rules similar to their sister school in Killeen, Texas A&M Central Texas (TAMU-CT). IIRC, TAMU-CT has only one no-carry area and that is the university counseling center. Having read the CTC proposals in the paper last week, they were really off the wall talking about no chambered rounds, requiring retention holsters, and barring firearms anywhere on campus where persons under 18 were present. Don't they understand that there are people under 18 at the local mall, TAMU-CT, or just around town were licensed persons are already carrying? If you currently drive anywhere near the CTC campus, there are huge 30.06 and 30.07 signs on every street (that I have seen) leading in to the campus.

[Boxerrider]

Their was some indication that this is still a work in progress - I would say they need to make a lot of progress before it meets the conditions required by the law.
E. Marquez - For now the only thing I can see is to contact the committee members. They aren't actually violating the law until August 1st. After that, the AG's office?

[treadlightly]

An empty chamber as a safety feature gives me the willies. Anyone who would treat a gun with greater caution because it is known to have a round chambered is not fully informed.

[Boxerrider]

The overall ignorance about SB11 and LTC statues amazes me. That higher-education administrators try to do what they want in spite of them does not. I'm not familiar enough with the text of HB560 yet - would it make all of this irrelevant? (EDIT: It looks like no, SB11 will remain unaffected by HB560 as introduced)

Below are my thoughts on CTC's carry restrictions, and I welcome help from all of you before I move forward. CTC's campus carry implementation page http://www.ctcd.edu/locations/central-c ... mentation/ refers to the risk management department, so that's probably where I will send them. Most of my support comes from KP-0051 so I'll send in a copy of it as well.

• All concealed handguns brought on campus must be holstered without a chambered round and with the trigger safety mechanism engaged.

Carrying a handgun with a round chambered is a legal and common practice for both license holders and law-enforcement officers. Requiring students and employees to unholster and clear their firearm each time they enter the campus does not reduce the likelihood of a negligent discharge, but greatly increases it.
While this policy is not directly addressed in KP-0051, the attorney general does mention it in footnote 7, "You do not ask whether institutions of higher education may establish policies regarding the manner in which license holders carry on campus, such as holster requirements or policies regarding the presence of a chambered round. See Campus Carry Policy Working Group Final Report, supra note 3 at 16 (preventing license holders from carrying a gun with a chambered round, requiring license holders to carry in a holster that completely covers the trigger and trigger guard area, and requiring sufficient tension on the handgun to retain it in the holster when subjected to unexpected jostling). Analyzing such restrictions would involve whether S.B. 11 delegated to public institutions of higher education the ability to restrict the manner in which license holders carry and whether state law restrictions on the manner of carrying preempts the field of such regulations. See, e.g., S. Crushed Concrete, L.L.C. v. City of Houston, 398 S.W.3d 676, 678 (Tex. 2013) (recognizing that state law may preempt local ordinances)."

• CTCD owned, rented or leased passenger vehicles.

SB11 states, "The president or officer may not establish provisions that generally prohibit or have the effect of generally prohibiting license holders from carrying concealed handguns on the campus of the institution. The president or officer may amend the provisions as necessary for campus safety." I believe it is easier to classify this policy as a general prohibition than as a provision necessary for campus safety. Employees and students traveling in school vehicles are responsible for abiding by handgun statutes along their route and at their destination regardless of SB11 or college policy.

• Sole occupant offices at occupant’s discretion

This policy conflicts with SB11 according to AG opinion KP-0051, "No provisions within S.B. 11 authorize a president or chief executive officer to delegate this authority to individual professors, and reading S.B. 11 as a whole suggests that the Legislature did not intend to allow such piecemeal regulation of handguns on campus."

• Gun free zones - Building 111, Systems Services and Building 119, Student Services.

Disability Services and Testing Services are both housed in building 111.
Academic Guidance, Registration, Transcript Services, and Graduation are all departments housed in building 119.
These departments are accessed by students on a regular basis and are considered routine and necessary to attain a degree. The state does not prohibit the concealed carry of handguns at retail outlets, financial institutions, or tax assessor-collector offices, therefore there is no reason to consider these campus buildings at risk simply because financial transactions take place within them.

• Building 120, Morton Hall residence housing is gun free with the exception of the lobby and lounge, game room and T.V. room.

This policy conflicts with SB11 according to AG opinion KP-0051, "If an institution placed a prohibition on handguns in the institution's residential facilities, however, it would effectively prohibit license holders in those facilities from carrying concealed handguns on campus, in violation of S.B. 11."

[The Annoyed Man]

Both policies appear to violate the law. The law allows colleges to decide where guns can be carried, not how they may be carried. Also, giving options to ban handguns in offices will make statutorily-required widespread notice difficult if not impossible to provide.

Chas.

Chas, how do you recommended dealing with this.. It effects me directly

As others have said, these appear to be drafts only, and as Charles has said, they violate the law. Obviously I can't tell you what you must do, but I can tell you what I would do, and that is to ignore them. Campus carry requires concealment. If we do it right, how on earth would anyone even know we were carrying, let alone know if we had a round chambered or not? As far as individuals designating their offices as "gun free zones", let 'em. It has no force of law without a prominently displace compliant 30.06 sign. I'd carry into those offices because, again, how would they know? Is this a public school? If it is, then they can't expel you for having complied with the law, while they refused to comply. Nobody wants to have to pay for an attorney, but I'll bet that about a half hour in court would not only force them to reinstate you in good standing, but the damages they'd have to pay would cover your academic tuition/fees/other costs right through to graduation, with money left over for a new motorcycle.

[priusron]

If I have to upholster my concealed carry firearm to remove the magazine, eject the chambered round, then reinsert the magazine and reposted, the firearm is no longer concealed during that time and they may as well permit open carry. Wouldn't it be nice to have multiple devices around the campus with people lined up waiting to handle their firearm in public so,they can remove the round from the chamber? Imagine the panic at all the now known individuals carrying on campus.

[mm3815]

Sorry I know this is an old post this however affects me as well as other students that live in the ctc dorms. I currently live in the dorms and plan to get my LTC in the fall. When i saw the draft for the campus carry policy i personally emailed CHeif of CTC Police about only being able to carry in common areas and not in our personal rooms and this was here reply. "To answer your question about our draft policy restricting the carrying of concealed handguns to only common areas of the dorm; this is for the safety and protection of the majority of dorm students who are not of age to obtain a handgun license and who may be paired with rooming with a handgun license holder; and the possibility of a handgun being stolen from a license holders dorm room. CTC has no plans to purchase or have gun safes mounted in the dorm for the storage of handguns. Our policy, which is still in draft form, follows the trend of Universities in Texas who have already adopted similar policies for weapons in their dormitories.

Thank you for your inquiry." so why can we not get our own safes and do it that way there have been a number of instances where I felt unsafe and they do not even allow pocket knives per the handbook.
Thanks sorry for any mistakes this is my first post
mm3815

[Jusme]

Sorry I know this is an old post this however affects me as well as other students that live in the ctc dorms. I currently live in the dorms and plan to get my LTC in the fall. When i saw the draft for the campus carry policy i personally emailed CHeif of CTC Police about only being able to carry in common areas and not in our personal rooms and this was here reply. "To answer your question about our draft policy restricting the carrying of concealed handguns to only common areas of the dorm; this is for the safety and protection of the majority of dorm students who are not of age to obtain a handgun license and who may be paired with rooming with a handgun license holder; and the possibility of a handgun being stolen from a license holders dorm room. CTC has no plans to purchase or have gun safes mounted in the dorm for the storage of handguns. Our policy, which is still in draft form, follows the trend of Universities in Texas who have already adopted similar policies for weapons in their dormitories.

Thank you for your inquiry." so why can we not get our own safes and do it that way there have been a number of instances where I felt unsafe and they do not even allow pocket knives per the handbook.
Thanks sorry for any mistakes this is my first post
mm3815

Welcome to the forum!

This seems to be the prevailing attitude with college administrators. My thought is, why worry about the theft of a handgun, and put the onus on the LTC holder. Shouldn't thieves be weeded out?
I would push the powers that be, to allow you to purchase your own safe. If theft is a major problem, what steps do they take to protect the student's other valuables? A gun is no more valuable than a $500.00 high school class ring.
You may have to become an advocate, and recruit other like minded students to get you voice heard. Also contact the representatives for your area. The law was passed by the legislators, and they can apply pressure to the college.
Good luck and keep us updated.

[Boxerrider]

Sorry I know this is an old post this however affects me as well as other students that live in the ctc dorms. I currently live in the dorms and plan to get my LTC in the fall. When i saw the draft for the campus carry policy i personally emailed CHeif of CTC Police about only being able to carry in common areas and not in our personal rooms and this was here reply. "To answer your question about our draft policy restricting the carrying of concealed handguns to only common areas of the dorm; this is for the safety and protection of the majority of dorm students who are not of age to obtain a handgun license and who may be paired with rooming with a handgun license holder; and the possibility of a handgun being stolen from a license holders dorm room. CTC has no plans to purchase or have gun safes mounted in the dorm for the storage of handguns. Our policy, which is still in draft form, follows the trend of Universities in Texas who have already adopted similar policies for weapons in their dormitories.

Thank you for your inquiry." so why can we not get our own safes and do it that way there have been a number of instances where I felt unsafe and they do not even allow pocket knives per the handbook.
Thanks sorry for any mistakes this is my first post
mm3815

Not only is it untrue that universities have adopted the policy, AG Abbott has written that it probably won't stand up in court.
I would put this in an email to the members of the board of trustees.