Using black rifles for home defense

[mr1337]

Prople keep telling me using an Ak or Ar for defense is a bad idea. They argue you'll be prosecuted because you used such a rifle.

Ask them to provide you with some examples

What Andy said. I would counsel against an AK in 7.62x39, simply because that is a lot of round for indoor use, but that is simply a tactical consideration, not a legal one. The AK74 would be the better choice if AK is your preferred flavor.

NOISE...... lets talk about that for a minute. I have a beautiful AR15 which I recently built, and is far and away the most expensive gun I own. I'm an old man, and I allowed myself a treat. I built it light exactly so that it would not be unwieldy for inside the home social work. I also bought a suppressor for it, thinking that this would be a distinct advantage inside the confines of a room, where even a 9mm pistol is LOUD. After taking it to the range, and shooting it with both subsonic and supersonic ammo, I made some interesting discoveries, to whit:

1. Shooting subsonic ammo, the trigger reset was louder than the gun, but it wouldn't cycle the bolt.....effectively turning my AR15 into a pull-type bolt action. Fine maybe for use as a "hush puppy", but not much good in a firefight.
2. Shooting supersonic ammo, the rifle is dead nuts reliable, AND it is a LOT quieter, certainly quieter than an unsuppressed handgun, but it is STILL louder than you would want to shoot indoors. Great in a firefight, but not much good as a "hush puppy".
3. The suppressor adds about 7.5" to the overall length of the carbine, and adds a little over a pound of weight out on the very end of the barrel, both of which factors reduce its "handiness" inside the confines of a home. My 7.1 lb 16" barreled carbine essentially becomes a 8.25 lb 23.5" barreled rifle.

It is too loud to shoot inside the house, even suppressed, and it is too long when suppressed. My other inside the house long gun is a 20" barreled Mossberg 590 A1..... a great tactical shotgun, but if an AR is loud inside the house, then sound of 12 gauge booyeah would be brutal.

So, I registered my Spikes lower on a form 1 for an SBR - 10.5" barrel in .300 Blackout. When the form is approved (in about 3-4 months from now), I will assemble a new upper using the 10.5" .300 Blk barrel. When assembled as an SBR, the overall length including the suppressor I already have for it will be virtually identical to the unsuppressed 5.56 rifle with the 16" barrel and flashhider mounted, and it will be very similar in weight to the unsuppressed carbine.

I will then be able to shoot 220 grain subsonic ammo inside my home, suppressed, without having to worry about deafening either myself, my wife, or my dog. The terminal ballistics will be very similar to a +P .45 ACP, with slightly better penetration due to bullet shape and construction, and greater accuracy. I think that is an ideal setup........and it's not bad on hogs either.

That's my dream setup. Wish I didn't owe Uncle Sam this year, or I might go for it.

[WildBill]

All guns are too loud to shoot inside your house.

Like I said, the subsonic 5.56 is quieter than the trigger reset on my gun. It is REALLY quiet. I used to have a pellet pistol that was louder than that.

I don't want to shoot any gun inside my house.

[Jusme]

I think what everyone has agreed upon is that you shouldn't let "other people" influence your choices, do some research, there are several good articles regarding using AR or AK for home defense. Also what ever you decide to use practice, practice, practice, Using an unloaded firearm, practice clearing your house room by room in the dark, understand that you may have to relocate or move children, wives, pets etc. to a safe location, can you do that with your firearm of choice? How accessible will it be? Will you have it locked and loaded? Will you have to chamber the first round? All of these decisions will have to be made by you alone. It's your castle you are defending not "other people's"

Stay Safe

[The Annoyed Man]

All guns are too loud to shoot inside your house.

Like I said, the subsonic 5.56 is quieter than the trigger reset on my gun. It is REALLY quiet. I used to have a pellet pistol that was louder than that.

I don't want to shoot any gun inside my house.

Ok.... I see what you did there.

[The Annoyed Man]

I would counsel against an AK in 7.62x39, simply because that is a lot of round for indoor use

Sissy.

LOL. Yeah. And I downsized to 9mm in carry pistols too. At least I'm not limp-wristing it yet.

[flintknapper]

TAM, will the 220 grain subs cycle?

We can get my Brother's 6.8 just stupid quiet with Subs and a suppressor, but it won't cycle for anything. I'm sure it would be a bit louder inside a room, but outside it literally just produces a mild 'putt' sound. Since it won't cycle we just close off the adjustable gas port and cycle it by hand, its definitely a single shot.

[SigM4]

TAM, will the 220 grain subs cycle?

Not TAM, but yes 220 grains will cycle an AR just fine. I shoot these out of an 8.5" AR both suppressed and unsuppressed. As others have said an AR shooting subsonic Blackout suppressed is just giggle quiet. I've contemplated this setup for HD, but the lack of expansion from these rounds give me some pause. However, there are some new rounds out in the 187-208 grain range that promise better expansion while staying subsonic. Will be interested to see some in depth reviews of these eventually.

[rentz]

Prople keep telling me using an Ak or Ar for defense is a bad idea. They argue you'll be prosecuted because you used such a rifle.

Ask them to provide you with some examples

What Andy said. I would counsel against an AK in 7.62x39, simply because that is a lot of round for indoor use, but that is simply a tactical consideration, not a legal one. The AK74 would be the better choice if AK is your preferred flavor.

NOISE...... lets talk about that for a minute. I have a beautiful AR15 which I recently built, and is far and away the most expensive gun I own. I'm an old man, and I allowed myself a treat. I built it light exactly so that it would not be unwieldy for inside the home social work. I also bought a suppressor for it, thinking that this would be a distinct advantage inside the confines of a room, where even a 9mm pistol is LOUD. After taking it to the range, and shooting it with both subsonic and supersonic ammo, I made some interesting discoveries, to whit:

1. Shooting subsonic ammo, the trigger reset was louder than the gun, but it wouldn't cycle the bolt.....effectively turning my AR15 into a pull-type bolt action. Fine maybe for use as a "hush puppy", but not much good in a firefight.
2. Shooting supersonic ammo, the rifle is dead nuts reliable, AND it is a LOT quieter, certainly quieter than an unsuppressed handgun, but it is STILL louder than you would want to shoot indoors. Great in a firefight, but not much good as a "hush puppy".
3. The suppressor adds about 7.5" to the overall length of the carbine, and adds a little over a pound of weight out on the very end of the barrel, both of which factors reduce its "handiness" inside the confines of a home. My 7.1 lb 16" barreled carbine essentially becomes a 8.25 lb 23.5" barreled rifle.

It is too loud to shoot inside the house, even suppressed, and it is too long when suppressed. My other inside the house long gun is a 20" barreled Mossberg 590 A1..... a great tactical shotgun, but if an AR is loud inside the house, then sound of 12 gauge booyeah would be brutal.

So, I registered my Spikes lower on a form 1 for an SBR - 10.5" barrel in .300 Blackout. When the form is approved (in about 3-4 months from now), I will assemble a new upper using the 10.5" .300 Blk barrel. When assembled as an SBR, the overall length including the suppressor I already have for it will be virtually identical to the unsuppressed 5.56 rifle with the 16" barrel and flashhider mounted, and it will be very similar in weight to the unsuppressed carbine.

I will then be able to shoot 220 grain subsonic ammo inside my home, suppressed, without having to worry about deafening either myself, my wife, or my dog. The terminal ballistics will be very similar to a +P .45 ACP, with slightly better penetration due to bullet shape and construction, and greater accuracy. I think that is an ideal setup........and it's not bad on hogs either.

What you mention about the 300bo is why I found myself browsing sbr 300bo uppers, to swap my 5.56 out to and suppress because the 5.56 is just really loud for what it is but a suppressed 300bo is a really viable hd platform

[NotRPB]

This is simply not true. A reason one can get into legal problems in a justified shooting is if a bullet over penetrates and hits someone else. Most pistol rounds can penetrate more than 223 soft points or vmax rounds.

It was my understanding that is why the D.P.S. use those rifles, because they are safer.
INSIDE THE CAPITAL BUILDING/ INDOORS in crowds of people, etc etc ... they do not want over-penetration injuring innocents nearby or in other rooms ...
I'd use the guns the Law enforcement community use to keep everyone safer, because they should know best, right?
The ones I know have an AR and/or a shotgun in addition to their handgun, depending on what tool they need at the time.

[doncb]

Well, initially I thought about using my Mosin M44 carbine firing the venerable 7.62x54r. Then I realized that a) no one in the house would ever hear again. b) over penetration could end up hitting someone in the next city. c) It only holds 5 rounds. d) The fireball and muzzle blast would probably destroy the house. It does have the advantage of a bayonet though.

I settled om my AKM shooting SP rounds from a 10 round mag. My main line of defense though is a big dog and my CZ82 9mm.

[The Annoyed Man]

...The fireball and muzzle blast would probably destroy the house. It does have the advantage of a bayonet though.....

......Not to mention setting off every car alarm in the city......

[Soap]

Well, initially I thought about using my Mosin M44 carbine firing the venerable 7.62x54r. Then I realized that a) no one in the house would ever hear again. b) over penetration could end up hitting someone in the next city. c) It only holds 5 rounds. d) The fireball and muzzle blast would probably destroy the house. It does have the advantage of a bayonet though.

I settled om my AKM shooting SP rounds from a 10 round mag. My main line of defense though is a big dog and my CZ82 9mm.

What kind of sp rounds for the akm?

[doncb]

Well, initially I thought about using my Mosin M44 carbine firing the venerable 7.62x54r. Then I realized that a) no one in the house would ever hear again. b) over penetration could end up hitting someone in the next city. c) It only holds 5 rounds. d) The fireball and muzzle blast would probably destroy the house. It does have the advantage of a bayonet though.

I settled om my AKM shooting SP rounds from a 10 round mag. My main line of defense though is a big dog and my CZ82 9mm.

What kind of sp rounds for the akm?

Herters 154 grain SP. Got them at the local Cabelas a while back.