AG opinion on SB11

[dhoobler]

Is there no opinion requested for police demanding ID for Open Carriers without any other suspicion/cause?

No. That question relates to HB 910, not SB 11.

There was an amendment added to HB 910 that would have prohibited police officers from asking for ID of someone who was openly carrying a handgun. It had support from democrats, who feared profiling, and from libertarians. It was removed from HB 910 prior to passage because of push-back from law enforcement.

I know it relates to OC, but I thought someone here who has read through the requests might know.
I am also aware of the Dutton amendment, but the legislature said it was not needed because the 4th amendment gave that protection. I thought someone may have asked for clarification by the AG if police could ask for a license with no other suspicion other than an openly carried handgun.

There is no request for opinion addressing when/where a police officer can detain someone who is openly carrying a firearm. The US Supreme Court set the threshold very low in the 1968 case, Terry vs. Ohio for when a police officer to detain someone. The outcome of the case is called a "Terry stop".

Here is a YouTube video by an attorney explaining the case.

[locke_n_load]

Is there no opinion requested for police demanding ID for Open Carriers without any other suspicion/cause?

No. That question relates to HB 910, not SB 11.

There was an amendment added to HB 910 that would have prohibited police officers from asking for ID of someone who was openly carrying a handgun. It had support from democrats, who feared profiling, and from libertarians. It was removed from HB 910 prior to passage because of push-back from law enforcement.

I know it relates to OC, but I thought someone here who has read through the requests might know.
I am also aware of the Dutton amendment, but the legislature said it was not needed because the 4th amendment gave that protection. I thought someone may have asked for clarification by the AG if police could ask for a license with no other suspicion other than an openly carried handgun.

There is no request for opinion addressing when/where a police officer can detain someone who is openly carrying a firearm. The US Supreme Court set the threshold very low in the 1968 case, Terry vs. Ohio for when a police officer to detain someone. The outcome of the case is called a "Terry stop".

Here is a YouTube video by an attorney explaining the case.

I think some cops in Texas, after the addition and removal of the Duffines/Hutton amendment, are going to demand ID, and it would be nice if the Texas AG weighed in. Sounds like I need to submit a request for an opinion.

[dhoobler]

I think some cops in Texas, after the addition and removal of the Duffines/Hutton amendment, are going to demand ID, and it would be nice if the Texas AG weighed in. Sounds like I need to submit a request for an opinion.

You can't submit a request for opinion.

From:
https://www.texasattorneygeneral.gov/op ... ns/#whocan
Who Can Request an Attorney General Opinion?

Sections 402.042 and 402.043 of the Government Code list the officials who are authorized to request formal attorney general opinions on questions of law. The attorney general is prohibited by statute from giving a written opinion to anyone other than an authorized requestor. Authorized requestors are:

the governor
the head of a department of state government
the head or board of a penal institution
the head or board of an eleemosynary institution
the head of a state board
a regent or trustee of a state educational institution
a committee of a house of the Texas Legislature
a county auditor authorized by law
the chairman of the governing board of a river authority
a district or county attorney
A person other than an authorized requestor who would like to request an attorney general opinion may ask an authorized requestor to submit the question to the attorney general. The authorized requestor has the discretion to decide whether to ask for an attorney general opinion in any given instance.

[mreed911]

Terry stop, RS, PC or not, the Government Code explicitly authorizes an officer to make the stop and check for a license. No opinion is needed. Until the leg changes GC 411, it's legal.

[Papa_Tiger]

Terry stop, RS, PC or not, the Government Code explicitly authorizes an officer to make the stop and check for a license. No opinion is needed. Until the leg changes GC 411, it's legal.

If you are going to reference 411.205, you might actually want to read it and understand what it says...

Please show me where it grants authority to an officer to demand your license. The statute is quoted for your convenience below:

REQUIREMENT TO DISPLAY LICENSE. If a license holder is carrying a handgun on or about the license holder's person when a magistrate or a peace officer demands that the license holder display identification, the license holder shall display both the license holder's driver's license or identification certificate issued by the department and the license holder's handgun license.

[TVegas]

Terry stop, RS, PC or not, the Government Code explicitly authorizes an officer to make the stop and check for a license. No opinion is needed. Until the leg changes GC 411, it's legal.

If you are going to reference 411.205, you might actually want to read it and understand what it says...

Please show me where it grants authority to an officer to demand your license. The statute is quoted for your convenience below:

REQUIREMENT TO DISPLAY LICENSE. If a license holder is carrying a handgun on or about the license holder's person when a magistrate or a peace officer demands that the license holder display identification, the license holder shall display both the license holder's driver's license or identification certificate issued by the department and the license holder's handgun license.

Terry Stops were upheld by the court. It's common law. That statute is separate from the authority itself. The statute is a requirement put on the license holder when the officer initiates a Terry Stop.

[Papa_Tiger]

Terry stop, RS, PC or not, the Government Code explicitly authorizes an officer to make the stop and check for a license. No opinion is needed. Until the leg changes GC 411, it's legal.

If you are going to reference 411.205, you might actually want to read it and understand what it says...

Please show me where it grants authority to an officer to demand your license. The statute is quoted for your convenience below:

REQUIREMENT TO DISPLAY LICENSE. If a license holder is carrying a handgun on or about the license holder's person when a magistrate or a peace officer demands that the license holder display identification, the license holder shall display both the license holder's driver's license or identification certificate issued by the department and the license holder's handgun license.

Terry Stops were upheld by the court. It's common law. That statute is separate from the authority itself. The statute is a requirement put on the license holder when the officer initiates a Terry Stop.

My point exactly. The officer has to have a reason to demand your ID before you are required to present it. GC 411 does not give authorization to an officer to initiate a stop, it prescribes what action the license holder must take IF an officer demands identification from the license holder.

That being said, show the officer your license and you will be on your way. The street corner is not the place to be playing lawyer with an officer who is ignorant of the law. Follow it up after the fact with a complaint to his superiors including Open Records requests for the stop video as well as any 911 calls and other documentation if you are concerned about it.

[TVegas]

Terry stop, RS, PC or not, the Government Code explicitly authorizes an officer to make the stop and check for a license. No opinion is needed. Until the leg changes GC 411, it's legal.

If you are going to reference 411.205, you might actually want to read it and understand what it says...

Please show me where it grants authority to an officer to demand your license. The statute is quoted for your convenience below:

REQUIREMENT TO DISPLAY LICENSE. If a license holder is carrying a handgun on or about the license holder's person when a magistrate or a peace officer demands that the license holder display identification, the license holder shall display both the license holder's driver's license or identification certificate issued by the department and the license holder's handgun license.

Terry Stops were upheld by the court. It's common law. That statute is separate from the authority itself. The statute is a requirement put on the license holder when the officer initiates a Terry Stop.

My point exactly. The officer has to have a reason to demand your ID before you are required to present it. GC 411 does not give authorization to an officer to initiate a stop, it prescribes what action the license holder must take IF an officer demands identification from the license holder.

That being said, show the officer your license and you will be on your way. The street corner is not the place to be playing lawyer with an officer who is ignorant of the law. Follow it up after the fact with a complaint to his superiors including Open Records requests for the stop video as well as any 911 calls and other documentation if you are concerned about it.

Right, but the Terry decision gives an officer the authority to briefly detain for any reasonable suspicion of criminal activity. (There is a difference between reasonable suspicion and probable cause) During that detention, the officer can demand identification. For instance: "It's illegal to carry a gun in the state of Texas, unless you have a LTC. You are carrying a gun. Could I please see your LTC?"

There really is no debate here. Open carry is not legal in Texas, but there is an exception for LTC holders. This an important distinction that separates Texas from most other states where there is not a law against carrying a gun openly. All those people who have made YouTube videos exercising their rights and refusing to give ID to police could be arrested and charged in a heartbeat here.

I wish that the amendment (Huffines?) barring an officer from asking for a license without probable cause had made it through, but that's unfortunately not the case.

[mreed911]

That being said, show the officer your license and you will be on your way. The street corner is not the place to be playing lawyer with an officer who is ignorant of the law. Follow it up after the fact with a complaint to his superiors including Open Records requests for the stop video as well as any 911 calls and other documentation if you are concerned about it.

On this we agree 100%.