Lone Star Gun Show at Will Rogers (FTW) 19-20 Dec

[tk1700]

Since Big Town shows are still posted 30.06, I e mailed the organizers and asked if this show would be 30.06 posted and mentioned SB 273. I received a suprisingly quick reply in about 12 hours. I'm posting their reply to let everyone know what the organizers policy (right or wrong) is:

"Thank you for your concern and the information. However, we do allow conceal carry but we DO NOT allow loaded guns in the show, due to the high amount of "accidental" discharges by CHL carriers. We understand the new law about city owned facilities, but our event is a private event and by paying admission you agree to follow our rules. This includes NO loaded firearms in the facility.

We have signs posted that say ALL firearms must be checked by police officers. So to walk by that sign and not comply would be grounds for immediate removal off the property. Also, you will be given a criminal trespass warning by the show director and the event coordinator/representative of the facility. Which means you will not ever be able to attend any event hosted by the promoter and any event at the facility.

Michelle Lindsey
Show Operations Manager
Lone Star Gun Shows
(P) 214-635-2009
(E) Michelle@lonestargunshow.com"

I have a few issues with this:

1. Concealed but not loaded, defeats the purpose of carrying!
2. "high amount of accidental discharges by CHL carriers", where's the data to back that up?
3. A private event on city property trumps the law? I don't believe this what SB 273 intended to do.
4. Criminal trespass warning and barred from future events if you do carry loaded, goes against purpose of new law, but I don't want to be the test case.

Curious as to what other forum members have to say about this and what further steps can be taken to comply with the law and not a promoters policy? I may not attend the show now.

[suthdj]

I have been to 2 shows there just wasnt impressed enough to ever go back.

[Pariah3j]

I'm pretty sure you can't compel someone to carry unloaded. You either allow concealed carry or don't allow it - either the event is 30.06 or not. Maybe to avoid their stupidity, just bring your weapon unloaded to the check point, walk to bathroom and load one into the chamber and carry on ?

On a the second part - the new SB 273 as far as I read the law is enforceable for private entities as well - public property is to not be posted 30.06 unless it falls under one of the exclusions - gun shows are not excluded. If they wanna post 30.06 or enforce silly rules, they need to rent a private venue. Granted I'm not a lawyer, but I don't think this grey area, the law is pretty clear to me about this.

[Beiruty]

What they are saying:
1) We can't ban you from concealed carry. So, you are legal to carry concealed.
2) We can kick you out if we discover that you are carrying concealed with a loaded gun
3) We can ban you if we discover that you are carrying concealed with a loaded gun

BTW, What defines loaded guns? No Ammo? No bullet in the chamber?
How can I unload and show clear from a smartcarry?
Will they zip tie your concealed carry? If so, they are effectively banning concealed carry.

I would say concealed is concealed. Carry on. If you are so reckless to be outed or if there is a magnetic search then do not carry there, or expect the consequence mentioned in the letter.

[mloamiller]

Concealed is concealed. Seems the worst they can do, should they find out, is ask/tell you to leave. They won't have any criminal grounds for that, but I guess they always have the right to "refuse service" to anyone.

As for the "not ever be able to attend any event hosted by the promoter and any event at the facility" - that's laughable. There is no way they could enforce that, unless they plan to start checking IDs for all attendees and keeping a "black list" updated.

[dhoobler]

Since Big Town shows are still posted 30.06, I e mailed the organizers and asked if this show would be 30.06 posted and mentioned SB 273. I received a suprisingly quick reply in about 12 hours. I'm posting their reply to let everyone know what the organizers policy (right or wrong) is:

"Thank you for your concern and the information. However, we do allow conceal carry but we DO NOT allow loaded guns in the show, due to the high amount of "accidental" discharges by CHL carriers. We understand the new law about city owned facilities, but our event is a private event and by paying admission you agree to follow our rules. This includes NO loaded firearms in the facility.

We have signs posted that say ALL firearms must be checked by police officers. So to walk by that sign and not comply would be grounds for immediate removal off the property. Also, you will be given a criminal trespass warning by the show director and the event coordinator/representative of the facility. Which means you will not ever be able to attend any event hosted by the promoter and any event at the facility.

Michelle Lindsey
Show Operations Manager
Lone Star Gun Shows
(P) 214-635-2009
(E) Michelle@lonestargunshow.com"

I have a few issues with this:

1. Concealed but not loaded, defeats the purpose of carrying!
2. "high amount of accidental discharges by CHL carriers", where's the data to back that up?
3. A private event on city property trumps the law? I don't believe this what SB 273 intended to do.
4. Criminal trespass warning and barred from future events if you do carry loaded, goes against purpose of new law, but I don't want to be the test case.

Curious as to what other forum members have to say about this and what further steps can be taken to comply with the law and not a promoters policy? I may not attend the show now.

By criminal trespass warning, I assume they are referring to TPC 30.05, which contains this:

(f) It is a defense to prosecution under this section that:
(1) the basis on which entry on the property or land or in the building was forbidden is that entry with a handgun was forbidden; and
(2) the person was carrying a concealed handgun and a license issued under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, to carry a concealed handgun.

[loktite]

Concealed is concealed. Seems the worst they can do, should they find out, is ask/tell you to leave. They won't have any criminal grounds for that, but I guess they always have the right to "refuse service" to anyone.

As for the "not ever be able to attend any event hosted by the promoter and any event at the facility" - that's laughable. There is no way they could enforce that, unless they plan to start checking IDs for all attendees and keeping a "black list" updated.

The real concern is when someone pulls out a concealed weapon at a vendor table with live ammo. If you think you're going to trade/sell it (or show it off), then get it zip-tied at the door. Otherwise, concealed is concealed, carry on IMO.

[ScottDLS]

Concealed is concealed. Seems the worst they can do, should they find out, is ask/tell you to leave. They won't have any criminal grounds for that, but I guess they always have the right to "refuse service" to anyone.

As for the "not ever be able to attend any event hosted by the promoter and any event at the facility" - that's laughable. There is no way they could enforce that, unless they plan to start checking IDs for all attendees and keeping a "black list" updated.

Doubly so because they cannot "trespass" you from public property. This is not different than if the State Fair Committee tried to do the same thing. You have an exemption to 30.05 trespass with your CHL anyway.

[Glockster]

A good indication of two things: Someone will likely take a ride even if they eventually beat it; there is more work for the next legislative year as they will surely need to address these issues as clearly the same folks who ignored/broke the law by prohibiting CHL will certainly continue to play game after game after game.

[AJSully421]

I have carried to every gun show that I have been to. No one notices.

That, and they are not the owners of the property, the city is, so the gun show promoter cannot issue a CT warning from city property, the FWPD won't touch you because they know better, nor can the promoter CT you from an event... CT is only for real property and they cannot CT you from every property that they happen to ever have a show at for the same reason.

They can refuse entry to the room where the show is, but they cannot have you physically removed from the "pre-entry" area of the building. I know for a fact that it is not written into the contract that someone who has a two-day lease of the Amon Carter Exhibit Hall is granted "apparent authority" of the City of Fort Worth to issue a CT warning for that property telling a citizen that they cannot be on the entire Will Rogers property or inside the Exhibit Hall ever again. That makes their email response here nothing but pure fantasy.

My eternal answer to any and all of these "Can I carry" questions will always be: If they don't care enough about their gun rules to have a metal detector, then I do not care enough to comply.

These people are 50 ways of stupid.

[JohnnyCat]

Funny - almost every incident I've read of a gunshot going off at a gun-show have been because of idiot dealers, not CHL holders.

For one, I don't know any CHL holder that would un-holster their loaded, defensive weapon in a public venue for any reason other than a defensive response. Totally unsafe and inappropriate!
I just may shoot you for that...lol.