OpenCarry.org supporters turn on A+ Senator

[Charles L. Cotton]

As I feared and predicted, some open-carry supporters on OpenCarry.org are turning on a long time friend to gun owners, Senator Jeff Wentworth from San Antonio. Here is a link to the thread: http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum66/21782.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Senator Wentworth has earned an A+ rating over the years and he was a recipient of the coveted TSRA "Doc Brown" Award for his work on behalf of gun owners. Senator Wentworth's most recent effort was to successfully carry the "Castle Doctrine" bill in the 2007 Texas Legislative Session, during which he got virtually all of his fellow Senators to sign on as co-authors or co-sponsors. This year he will be carrying the campus-carry bill in the Texas Senate to allow CHLs to defend themselves on college campuses and hopefully prevent a Virginia Tech-type massacre in Texas. He does so knowing full well that his actions will draw the attention and attacks of the anti-gun media and gun control supporters not only in Texas, but around the nation. This is the man some narrow minded open-carry supporters want to vilify.

I'll step way out on a limb and make two predictions. First, open-carry will not pass and secondly, a small but very vocal segment of the active OpenCarry.org members will alienate so many Senators and House Members that no one and no organization will be able to touch the open-carry issue for years. Publicly basting and mocking a long-time friend, a Senator who carried Castle Doctrine in 2007 and who will carry the highly controversial campus-carry bill this year is beyond irresponsible, it's self-destructive. (I'm not talking about open-carry supporters on TexasCHLforum and elsewhere who promote their goal responsibly without damaging or endangering continued working relationships that hinder our future legislative efforts.)

Don't tell me that anyone who is willing to destroy established working relationships with proven supporters of gun owners' rights is a Second Amendment supporter. As the old saying goes, with friends like that, who needs enemies?

Chas.

[Keith B]

I don't know why so many people these days think they can bully their way into getting what they want. I have found in over 30 years dealing with VERY large corporations you will only get stomped on and ostracized from the pack if you do this. Government is nothing but a big corporation and works the same way. The major difference is that any type of ruckus in the political arena usually gets media coverage. Coverage of this type is just NOT what open carry supporters need. Alienating the very people that can help your cause is just plain stupid and will get them nothing but negative press as well as causing the other legislators to negatively team with their fellow legislator who is being attacked.

[Oldgringo]

Agreed! There have been some mighty belligerent and vitriolic posts on this forum presumably in support of open carry - belligerent to the point of turning this member all of the way off in his support of that cause.

Abe Lincoln and later Dale Carneghie said, "you'll catch more bees with honey than with vinegar".

[nitrogen]

Agreed! There have been some mighty belligerent and vitriolic posts on this forum presumably in support of open carry - belligerent to the point of turning this member all of the way off in his support of that cause.

Abe Lincoln and later Dale Carneghie said, "you'll catch more bees with honey than with vinegar".

Strangely enough, I've been saying the same thing about the NRA, yet nobody seems to hear me there!

That is EXACTLY how many liberals feel when they read the things the NRA says about them.IT's one of the reasons I keep preaching about outreach to liberals on the gun issue. The gun issue isnt like many issues where there's two sides. Our side of the gun issue is the CORRECT side.

I'm absolutely livid that this group has taken an issue that I support and completely blown it.
I hope that someday some group like the TSRA can take the open carry issue and get it passed correctly.

[ninjamedic2293]

I dont even know what to say . . . I mean really?

[jimlongley]

Agreed! There have been some mighty belligerent and vitriolic posts on this forum presumably in support of open carry - belligerent to the point of turning this member all of the way off in his support of that cause.

Abe Lincoln and later Dale Carneghie said, "you'll catch more bees with honey than with vinegar".

Strangely enough, I've been saying the same thing about the NRA, yet nobody seems to hear me there!

That is EXACTLY how many liberals feel when they read the things the NRA says about them.IT's one of the reasons I keep preaching about outreach to liberals on the gun issue. The gun issue isnt like many issues where there's two sides. Our side of the gun issue is the CORRECT side.

I'm absolutely livid that this group has taken an issue that I support and completely blown it.
I hope that someday some group like the TSRA can take the open carry issue and get it passed correctly.

I disagree about the NRA's comments, I see it as much more deep seated, going back to the days when NRA was less politicized than now, and the flack started coming in from the left. It was them casting the NRA in a bad light early on, back when middle ground was a more easily accomplished goal, that led to the more uncooperative stance the NRA has taken, and rightly so in my opinion.

Having said that, I think OC.org has overstepped their bounds, far overstepped.

[pete71]

wentworth is my senator and a strong friend of gun rights. in addition to "castle" i believe he was a major force in getting the "travel" issue put to bed by extending your " premise "to include your vehicle. some of our big city mayors and da's(and some in-your-face cops) just said to arrest and let the citizen (or his well-compensated lawyer) explain it to the judge. we really don't need a group of zealots dividing our ranks. in case the open-carry crowd haven't noticed, our existing gun rights are now in jeopardy. one of the reasons we lost big time over the last 2 election cycles is the movement of the independent voter to left-of-center. all we need now is for a bunch of people showing up all over the place with high-capacity large caliber weapons hanging on their hips(probably with extra mags). i think a lot of this open-carry crowd is really just wanting to carry the big stuff they own. 5-shot 38 spl just not enough to make them feel secure i guess.

[KRM45]

Those comments don't seem that bad to me. Mostly knee-jerk reaction to the posted article. If the quote attributed to him in the article is accurate, I can understand the response.

I notice one of our frequent posters is in the thick of it too...

[Liberty]

Those comments don't seem that bad to me. Mostly knee-jerk reaction to the posted article. If the quote attributed to him in the article is accurate, I can understand the response.

I notice one of our frequent posters is in the thick of it too...

I expected to see a thread ripping him to pieces, the comments weren't savage emotional, or unreasonable stretches of logic, and while OC isn't high on my list. I can see why the remarks attributed to Jeff Wentworth would bother those who are pushing for OC and remember the legislative debates of 1995 and 1993.

"Republican state Sen. Jeff Wentworth, who sponsored the college campus bill, opposes open carry. "I think that's harkening too far back to the Wild West," he says.

I think Rep. Wentworth would be well advised to pick his words a little more wisely.

[Right2Carry]

I don't see what the big deal is either. The Senator made a comment about going back to the Wild West and we have heard that rhetoric before. I know he is an A+ rated senator but does that mean he is off limits to criticism? I agree with Liberty that the Senator should choose his words more carefully. Alienating people who support open carry is not in the best interest of regaining our full fledged 2A rights. I am well aware that this is a two way road and both sides need to exercise caution when making statements.

[SA-TX]

Boy, I'm in a tough spot on this one. I love Sen. Wentworth for what he has done and Charles's comments carry great weight with me. Yet, wild west references do sound like fingers on a chalkboard to my ears because they simply aren't true (at least as far as bloody shootouts at the drop of a hat). As others have pointed out, 2A opponents commonly use such metaphors when opposing concealed carry or other pro-gun initiatives. Nevertheless, I hope someone could work with Sen. Wentworth to help him understand that WA, AZ, NM, LA, VA, PA, and others are NOT the wild west and Texas wouldn't be either. It is complete hyperbole.

At this point, I suspect Charles is right. Open carry will not pass this session. If we, the supporters, haven't been wise enough to get A+ rated senators on our side, we have zero chance in a body that requires a supermajority of support to advance legislation. I hope that Charles is wrong in that it will poison the well for other good changes such as campus carry and parking lot carry. That must not be allowed to happen.

Charles, you have my personal commitment to the above proposals regardless of what happens with open carry and you will continue to see me speak out for politically effective tactics, as I see them, on OpenCarry.org. What you might not like is that I see this as yet another reason why TSRA needs to handle open carry in a future session. You understand how the Texas Legislature works and have the connections to get things done. OpenCarry.org has many passionate, grass roots supporters of which I am one. We are enthusiastic, we give to our cause (both in time and money), and we vote. Yet, we are novices. We need professional help to accomplish our goals. Why others cannot or chose not to see this, I cannot say. I will not be a part of any circular firing squad. I want to be on a winning team because only then will Texans have the full force of the liberty that is their birthright.

SA-TX

[KaiserB]

This issue is a hot one for 2009, unfortunately what is demonstrated by a minority is but a symptom of a bigger issue. I have come to realize, over the past couple of years, the reason things such as open carry, fair tax and viable 3rd party candidates rarely succeed is:

The minority of people who act as a catalyst to start things are too radical and do not use discretion to communicate there points.
OR
The minority of people who act as a catalyst quickly lose control of an issue to the vocal radicals who do not use discretion to communicate points.

In both cases these people tend to explode at any dissenter of what-ever movement the minority is advancing. The loudest voices do not take the time to work the political process in the Constitution as the founding fathers intended and end up demanding things, tossing people under the bus, and threatening anarchy and revolution every 5 minutes. This causes a backlash and the public perceives the starting minority as radicals, moon bats and loons...then the movement dies off or goes to the political fringes.

Things like this are very disheartening...

[Liberty]

This issue is a hot one for 2009, unfortunately what is demonstrated by a minority is but a symptom of a bigger issue. I have come to realize, over the past couple of years, the reason things such as open carry, fair tax and viable 3rd party candidates rarely succeed is:

The minority of people who act as a catalyst to start things are too radical and do not use discretion to communicate there points.
OR
The minority of people who act as a catalyst quickly lose control of an issue to the vocal radicals who do not use discretion to communicate points.

In both cases these people tend to explode at any dissenter of what-ever movement the minority is advancing. The loudest voices do not take the time to work the political process in the Constitution as the founding fathers intended and end up demanding things, tossing people under the bus, and threatening anarchy and revolution every 5 minutes. This causes a backlash and the public perceives the starting minority as radicals, moon bats and loons...then the movement dies off or goes to the political fringes.

Things like this are very disheartening...

I find it interesting to follow the paths of concept for the following year. A year ago I believe that the idea of putting a school carry bill and the odds of getting it passed would be pretty slim, the idea of open carry seemed to be an easier thing to accomplish. Now it looks as though school carry will be possible and most people now understand that open carry doesn't stand a chance this year. how did the radical concept become accepted as reasonable and the once reasonable conceptget painted as radical. a lot of it is about presentation. The campus carry people went and worked for support, They presented reasonable discussion and education, The empty holster protest was brilliant public relations, was non threatning got the media to cooperate usually sympathatically, and the students avoided any shouting matches. Those who objected with fear were allowed to express incoherently their concerns. They looked out right silly when they tried to address the scary empty holsters. The handbook campaign is a way of not only educating supporters and our legislators, for a very small fee supporters can an actually get the message out to our legislators, in such a way we can all understand.

The open carry folks have a lot of enthusiasm, but they haven't shown the political savy that the students have shown. They get a couple bill boards with a babe in a gun. Great poster beautiful girl, but in effect all it does is get a online cute statement out to general public, they don't manage to get the MSM discusing the real issues.

Just my thoughts.

[Charles L. Cotton]

This issue is a hot one for 2009, unfortunately what is demonstrated by a minority is but a symptom of a bigger issue. I have come to realize, over the past couple of years, the reason things such as open carry, fair tax and viable 3rd party candidates rarely succeed is:

The minority of people who act as a catalyst to start things are too radical and do not use discretion to communicate there points.
OR
The minority of people who act as a catalyst quickly lose control of an issue to the vocal radicals who do not use discretion to communicate points.

In both cases these people tend to explode at any dissenter of what-ever movement the minority is advancing. The loudest voices do not take the time to work the political process in the Constitution as the founding fathers intended and end up demanding things, tossing people under the bus, and threatening anarchy and revolution every 5 minutes. This causes a backlash and the public perceives the starting minority as radicals, moon bats and loons...then the movement dies off or goes to the political fringes.

Things like this are very disheartening...

I find it interesting to follow the paths of concept for the following year. A year ago I believe that the idea of putting a school carry bill and the odds of getting it passed would be pretty slim, the idea of open carry seemed to be an easier thing to accomplish. Now it looks as though school carry will be possible and most people now understand that open carry doesn't stand a chance this year. how did the radical concept become accepted as reasonable and the once reasonable conceptget painted as radical. a lot of it is about presentation. The campus carry people went and worked for support, They presented reasonable discussion and education, The empty holster protest was brilliant public relations, was non threatning got the media to cooperate usually sympathatically, and the students avoided any shouting matches. Those who objected with fear were allowed to express incoherently their concerns. They looked out right silly when they tried to address the scary empty holsters. The handbook campaign is a way of not only educating supporters and our legislators, for a very small fee supporters can an actually get the message out to our legislators, in such a way we can all understand.

The open carry folks have a lot of enthusiasm, but they haven't shown the political savy that the students have shown. They get a couple bill boards with a babe in a gun. Great poster beautiful girl, but in effect all it does is get a online cute statement out to general public, they don't manage to get the MSM discussing the real issues.

Just my thoughts.

Excellent analysis Liberty and KaiserB.

Chas.