Kilgore College Pres claims casualties at Luby's due to CHL

[OldCurlyWolf]

I agree. When the Texas CHL bill passed in 1995 (SB60), two of the strongest opponents publicly admitted their opposition was unfounded. One, former Harris County DA John B. "Johnny" Holmes, even became an ardent supporter of CHL's and called for favorable revisions to Texas law. At this point, I have to take Dr. Holda at his word . . . while remaining vigilant of course.

Chas.

I knew Johnny and Ted Poe also when he was an ADA. I didn't know Johnny felt that way about CC back then. Surprise me

[Charles L. Cotton]

I agree. When the Texas CHL bill passed in 1995 (SB60), two of the strongest opponents publicly admitted their opposition was unfounded. One, former Harris County DA John B. "Johnny" Holmes, even became an ardent supporter of CHL's and called for favorable revisions to Texas law. At this point, I have to take Dr. Holda at his word . . . while remaining vigilant of course.

Chas.

I knew Johnny and Ted Poe also when he was an ADA. I didn't know Johnny felt that way about CC back then. Surprise me

I wasn't at all surprised. I sent him a copy of my proposed CHL bill in 1980 that was to be introduced in the 1981 legislative session. Shortly thereafter, Johnny was speaking at a Rotary Club function with a Houston Chronicle reporter present. The next day an article appeared noting that a bill to allow citizens to carry handguns was going to be filed and it was a horrible idea. I wish I could find an article from 1980.

In the summer of 1996, there was an interim study on implementation of SB60 (concealed handgun statute) and a public hearing was held at the City of Houston City Hall Annex. I was asked to be there and Johnny Holmes was there as a resource witness. I saw him in the hall before it started and asked him if he was there to torpedo the CHL program only six months after it began. He smiled and said "you're going to like what I have to say." When he spoke, he heaped glowing praise on CHL's and recommended favorable changes to the law, including making the lack of a 51% sign a defense to prosecution. He also admitted he was strongly against the concept of CHL and that he was dead wrong. I had always liked Johnny Holmes, but the 1980 article and his years long opposition to CHL didn't set well. His public admission that his opposition was unfounded and his support of CHL's in the interim study earned my utmost respect.

Chas.

[baldeagle]

Bill Holda reports on his CHL class.

Report on Qualifying Day: Scotti and I had a great day yesterday. It was FULL! Between the extensive classroom instruction, going to the range and completing the certification, we learned a lot. We used a Glock .45 mm at the range to qualify. I liked the gun; it had a nice feel and was pretty smooth. I had 3 in the “7″ ring, 5 in the “8″ ring and everything else was 9, 10, or X. After we qualified, we also did some rapid fire, just for the experience. The weather was beautiful, the instructor was GREAT, and overall it was a perfect day….except…. how ironic — that our CHL qualifying day was occurring while the shooting in Arizona occurred. Rested heavy on me all evening. Anyway, thanks to those of you who have stayed in touch and I look forward to more good discussion. Bill.

[RPB]

Bill Holda reports on his CHL class.

Report on Qualifying Day: Scotti and I had a great day yesterday. It was FULL! Between the extensive classroom instruction, going to the range and completing the certification, we learned a lot. We used a Glock .45 mm at the range to qualify. I liked the gun; it had a nice feel and was pretty smooth. I had 3 in the “7″ ring, 5 in the “8″ ring and everything else was 9, 10, or X. After we qualified, we also did some rapid fire, just for the experience. The weather was beautiful, the instructor was GREAT, and overall it was a perfect day….except…. how ironic — that our CHL qualifying day was occurring while the shooting in Arizona occurred. Rested heavy on me all evening. Anyway, thanks to those of you who have stayed in touch and I look forward to more good discussion. Bill.

I just posted there ...

-----------

Quoting myself:
http://popgun.wordpress.com/2010/12/30/ ... omment-966" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Your comment is awaiting moderation.

RPB says:
January 9, 2011 at 11:08 pm

“Rested heavy on me all evening”

Mine too, and the world’s.

I hesitate to mention my feelings about Brady Campaign’s actions since it occurred, so I won’t.

Rather, I’d like to publicly thank one of the heroes, Joe Zamudio.

If you don’t know who that is, and why I’m thanking that hero:
(You can verify at YouTube, CNN, azcentral.com or the Dateline interview

Joe Zamudio held down the shooting suspect, and secured the gun. (looks to be a young college-aged fellow)

Dateline: (available at msnbc video “Is Congress’ heated rhetoric responsible?”
at 2:56 to 3:36
I had my hand on my gun, but I didn’t pull it out
“You never drew your gun?”
No, I didn’t need to.

azcentral:
Four people instrumental in disarming Arizona shooting suspect
“Patricia Maisch, Roger Salzgeber, Bill Badger and Joseph Zamudio.”

Youtube:
Shooting witness What I saw – Joe Zamudio – CNN video

On behalf of all affected by this:
Thank you Joe for mitigating the potential damage that the shooter could have caused.

[Douva]

Bill Holda reports on his CHL class.

Report on Qualifying Day: Scotti and I had a great day yesterday. It was FULL! Between the extensive classroom instruction, going to the range and completing the certification, we learned a lot. We used a Glock .45 mm at the range to qualify. I liked the gun; it had a nice feel and was pretty smooth. I had 3 in the “7″ ring, 5 in the “8″ ring and everything else was 9, 10, or X. After we qualified, we also did some rapid fire, just for the experience. The weather was beautiful, the instructor was GREAT, and overall it was a perfect day….except…. how ironic — that our CHL qualifying day was occurring while the shooting in Arizona occurred. Rested heavy on me all evening. Anyway, thanks to those of you who have stayed in touch and I look forward to more good discussion. Bill.

I just posted there ...

-----------

Quoting myself:
http://popgun.wordpress.com/2010/12/30/ ... omment-966" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Your comment is awaiting moderation.

RPB says:
January 9, 2011 at 11:08 pm

“Rested heavy on me all evening”

Mine too, and the world’s.

I hesitate to mention my feelings about Brady Campaign’s actions since it occurred, so I won’t.

Rather, I’d like to publicly thank one of the heroes, Joe Zamudio.

If you don’t know who that is, and why I’m thanking that hero:
(You can verify at YouTube, CNN, azcentral.com or the Dateline interview

Joe Zamudio held down the shooting suspect, and secured the gun. (looks to be a young college-aged fellow)

Dateline: (available at msnbc video “Is Congress’ heated rhetoric responsible?”
at 2:56 to 3:36
I had my hand on my gun, but I didn’t pull it out
“You never drew your gun?”
No, I didn’t need to.

azcentral:
Four people instrumental in disarming Arizona shooting suspect
“Patricia Maisch, Roger Salzgeber, Bill Badger and Joseph Zamudio.”

Youtube:
Shooting witness What I saw – Joe Zamudio – CNN video

On behalf of all affected by this:
Thank you Joe for mitigating the potential damage that the shooter could have caused.

QUOTING MYSELF:
http://popgun.wordpress.com/2010/12/30/ ... omment-967" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

W. Scott Lewis says:
Your comment is awaiting moderation.
January 10, 2011 at 1:31 am

It’s easy for us to focus on Zamudio, since he is the only witness we know of who happened to be armed (he never drew his gun), but since he reached the scene after the gunman was already on the ground and simply helped hold him down, you might also want to thank the two men who wrestled the assailant to the ground and the one woman who tried to prevent him from reloading.

[RPB]

True, but

In the A&M faculty arguments a main concern is "those college aged 20-somethings" lack judgment maturity ...


I entered Community college at 26 years old ... Joe is only 24 years old ...

So,
I focused on him also because he appears to be the one who "secured" the shooter's gun, rather than going home with the cigarettes he just purchased from Walgreens.

The other "heroes" were there, or had to be there, reacted in self defense... he was in a different store around the corner, ran towards trouble to help, at the risk of his life.

Not trying to deprive any of credit, but I think he deserves kudos for running towards trouble, instead of getting in the car and heading home with his cigs. Armed or not.

When he arrived, yes the shooter was on the ground, still holding his gun. Joe secured it and another guy reached for it, Joe prevented anyone else from taking it (who knows, couldda been an accomplice) I wouldn't say "he simply held him down"

Joe CHOSE to get involved, and succeeded in securing the weapon.

[RPB]

I'm not the only one thanking him ... "There are those who will run away from the sound of gunfire, and there are those who will run towards it. Thank you Joe Zamudio"

Google "Thank you Joe Zamudio" with the quotes
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
I am surprised some Brady friendly sites where comments are moderated, allowed my comment after their articles (huffingtonpost etc)

Typical comments are "WHERE WERE THE GUN TOTERS? WHY WEREN'T THEY THERE TO HELP?
I reply, they were, and contrary to the Brady fears that more gun toters would complicate the situation, the one who took the gun away, was in fact carrying. That's where they were. At least that's where THAT gun-totin' college age kid was.



Oh wait, college aged kids aren't responsible nor mature enough .... maybe I'm mistaken ...



I guess I could concentrate on posting 100 posts thanking the older lady, an employee of Giffords, who HAD to be there and had been shot and reacted by fighting back in self defense ...

Joe is a college aged hero who chose to get involved and risk his life to help others (not self defense like the lady)....Armed or not.

Meanwhile Colin (and Andrew) Goddard over at the Brady bunch are reading about a college aged fellow... One who ran to intervene in order to try to save lives and played a key role in securing the gun, and he happened to be armed himself.

Discussion of Brady Campaign Responds to Giffords Shooting started by ...
http://www.opposingviews.com/comments/t ... zamudio--2" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Thank you Joe Zamudio. Regarding: Brady Campaign: Gabrielle Giffords Shooting "Inevitable" Published 12 Minutes Ago ...
http://www.opposingviews.com/users/some ... ments_list" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Bullwhip]

The doctor who fell to the ground behind the brick columm and played possum (faked being shot dead) got more national press than this Zamudio guy.

He was a humble guy, said he got there after the other 2 tackled the shooter, and said he didn't draw because the saw the shooter's gun was at slide lock. He didn't want to draw and be confused with the shooter (ME EITHER!!!), so he jumped on the dog pile and helped hold him down.

[RPB]

Quoting myself:
http://popgun.wordpress.com/2010/12/30/ ... omment-967" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Your comment is awaiting moderation.
RPB says:
January 10, 2011 at 7:41 am

I’ll clarify:

The older lady, an employee of Giffords, who HAD to be there and had already been shot reacted by fighting back in self defense…

Joe is a college aged hero who chose to get involved and risk his life to help others (not self defense like the lady)….Armed or not.

The other “heroes” were there, reacted … he was in a different store (Walgreens) around the corner, ran towards trouble to help.

Not trying to deprive any of credit, but I think he deserves kudos for running towards trouble, instead of getting in the car and heading home with his ciarettes. Armed or not.

When he arrived, yes the shooter was on the ground, *still holding his gun*. Joe secured it and another guy reached for it, Joe prevented anyone else from taking it (who knows, could have been an accomplice) I wouldn’t say “he simply held him down”

Joe CHOSE to get involved, at the risk of his life, when he didn’t have to go there from Walgreens, the others were already on the scene and were trying to stop the action, but were unable to get the gun secured, and he CHOSE to run toward danger, help, succeeded in securing the weapon.

That’s why IMHO, he deserves even more thanks than people engaging in self defense. Yes he was armed, didn’t draw, didn’t need to. That shows pretty good judgment for a college aged kid….agree?
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Bill Holda will read that ... He's keeping up with that blog's comments.

[RPB]

.

Sometimes it may be necessary to lay a foundation for an argument to be built/used later...
... when the antis ask "Where were the gun-toters"
and claim
"College aged kids can't handle it"
"College aged kids lack judgment"
"More gun-toters on the scene will aggravate the situation if they are immature college aged kids"

Joe is 24,... I entered Community College at age 26, he's a "college aged kid" in his "20-somethings"

[jimlongley]

Bill Holda reports on his CHL class.

Report on Qualifying Day: Scotti and I had a great day yesterday. It was FULL! Between the extensive classroom instruction, going to the range and completing the certification, we learned a lot. We used a Glock .45 mm at the range to qualify. I liked the gun; it had a nice feel and was pretty smooth. I had 3 in the “7″ ring, 5 in the “8″ ring and everything else was 9, 10, or X. After we qualified, we also did some rapid fire, just for the experience. The weather was beautiful, the instructor was GREAT, and overall it was a perfect day….except…. how ironic — that our CHL qualifying day was occurring while the shooting in Arizona occurred. Rested heavy on me all evening. Anyway, thanks to those of you who have stayed in touch and I look forward to more good discussion. Bill.

Since the thread seems to have drifted off into a discussion of the AZ shooting, I'll risk a little return fire and point out that Mr. Holda once again displays his ignorance, and his willingness to demonstrate it, by saying "We used a Glock .45 mm"

One would think that at this point he would concentrate on getting his facts straight.

[RPB]

Bill Holda reports on his CHL class.

Report on Qualifying Day: Scotti and I had a great day yesterday. It was FULL! Between the extensive classroom instruction, going to the range and completing the certification, we learned a lot. We used a Glock .45 mm at the range to qualify. I liked the gun; it had a nice feel and was pretty smooth. I had 3 in the “7″ ring, 5 in the “8″ ring and everything else was 9, 10, or X. After we qualified, we also did some rapid fire, just for the experience. The weather was beautiful, the instructor was GREAT, and overall it was a perfect day….except…. how ironic — that our CHL qualifying day was occurring while the shooting in Arizona occurred. Rested heavy on me all evening. Anyway, thanks to those of you who have stayed in touch and I look forward to more good discussion. Bill.

Since the thread seems to have drifted off into a discussion of the AZ shooting, I'll risk a little return fire and point out that Mr. Holda once again displays his ignorance, and his willingness to demonstrate it, by saying "We used a Glock .45 mm"

One would think that at this point he would concentrate on getting his facts straight.

well, he's new, at least he didn't use a .25mm ...

[Purplehood]

Bill Holda reports on his CHL class.

Report on Qualifying Day: Scotti and I had a great day yesterday. It was FULL! Between the extensive classroom instruction, going to the range and completing the certification, we learned a lot. We used a Glock .45 mm at the range to qualify. I liked the gun; it had a nice feel and was pretty smooth. I had 3 in the “7″ ring, 5 in the “8″ ring and everything else was 9, 10, or X. After we qualified, we also did some rapid fire, just for the experience. The weather was beautiful, the instructor was GREAT, and overall it was a perfect day….except…. how ironic — that our CHL qualifying day was occurring while the shooting in Arizona occurred. Rested heavy on me all evening. Anyway, thanks to those of you who have stayed in touch and I look forward to more good discussion. Bill.

Since the thread seems to have drifted off into a discussion of the AZ shooting, I'll risk a little return fire and point out that Mr. Holda once again displays his ignorance, and his willingness to demonstrate it, by saying "We used a Glock .45 mm"

One would think that at this point he would concentrate on getting his facts straight.

I personally would expect no less from a nOOb to firearms.

[Douva]

Quoting myself:
http://popgun.wordpress.com/2010/12/30/ ... omment-967" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Your comment is awaiting moderation.
RPB says:
January 10, 2011 at 7:41 am

I’ll clarify:

The older lady, an employee of Giffords, who HAD to be there and had already been shot reacted by fighting back in self defense…

Joe is a college aged hero who chose to get involved and risk his life to help others (not self defense like the lady)….Armed or not.

The other “heroes” were there, reacted … he was in a different store (Walgreens) around the corner, ran towards trouble to help.

Not trying to deprive any of credit, but I think he deserves kudos for running towards trouble, instead of getting in the car and heading home with his ciarettes. Armed or not.

When he arrived, yes the shooter was on the ground, *still holding his gun*. Joe secured it and another guy reached for it, Joe prevented anyone else from taking it (who knows, could have been an accomplice) I wouldn’t say “he simply held him down”

Joe CHOSE to get involved, at the risk of his life, when he didn’t have to go there from Walgreens, the others were already on the scene and were trying to stop the action, but were unable to get the gun secured, and he CHOSE to run toward danger, help, succeeded in securing the weapon.

That’s why IMHO, he deserves even more thanks than people engaging in self defense. Yes he was armed, didn’t draw, didn’t need to. That shows pretty good judgment for a college aged kid….agree?
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Bill Holda will read that ... He's keeping up with that blog's comments.

As I said on CampusCarry.com, Zamudio demonstrated discretion and sound judgment in deciding not to draw his weapon, but I don’t think we do ourselves any favors by turning him into some sort of folk hero.

On Dateline NBC Zamudio said, “When I made contact, they already had the firearm out of his hands.”

On CNN he said that another witness was holding the gun when he ran up, and he mistook that guy for the shooter and grabbed his wrist and tried to get the gun away from him.

I’m sure that everyone appreciates his help, but from everything I’ve heard, he wasn’t terribly instrumental in subduing the assailant. Also, it actually works against us to argue that CHL holders are a bunch of would-be heroes waiting to rush toward the sound of gunfire.

[RPB]

Ok, I just saw Giraldo's interview of him, and Joe Zamudio held down the legs and back of the guy and wasn't the one getting the gun away. ( Like Bill Holda, I admit my earlier error based on misinformation I got)

However:

In the room Colin was in, I believe one student (unarmed, now deceased) jumped to try to fight Cho ...

Dr Hupp's dad (unarmed, now deceased) went to fight the Luby's shooter, George Hennard.

Some rise to the occasion ... armed or not.
True, unlike the two above examples, Joe Zamudio did it without "needing" to, it was not in self-defense, so some might say "Batman".

Some rise to the occasion .... some lay down... even playing possum while a shooter reloads ... several times.

I respect all the above much more than I do Colin at VT, and Dr Rayle in Tucson, who played possum while shooters reload.

'I hid behind a concrete pole. The gunman was not particularly well dressed. He looked more like a fringe character.’
Dr Rayle, who works in an emergency room and has triage experience, said he played dead to fool the gunman.
Once the gunman had been tackled, he leapt up and stated helping...
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... z1AeEQC5bO" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Some play possum, some play Batman, others play with Smartphone cameras...
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/04/2 ... 50854.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Hugo Alfredo Tale-Yax was stabbed several times in the chest while saving a woman from a knife-wielding attacker. Then hebled to death while dozens of people walked by -- one stopping to snap a picture of the dying man with his cameraphone before leaving the scene.

Sometimes, just sometimes, the Mayor of Gotham City ... wishes Batman was there ..
Call him Batman if you want, Joe Zamudio rose to the occasion, he helped, and used pretty good judgment...

...for a college age kid

Which of those 4 types of people a person is, is not dependent on if they have a CHL or not, nor if they are armed or not.
Play possum
play Batman
walk by (go home with cigarettes)
Play with a camera

Gotta say, it's admirable in some situations. ...

ABC has a show "What would you do" my niece likes ... She's learning differences in walking by, being assertive, and being aggressive ...personally, I'll probably be hiding or behind cover in a shooting situation in a school, but I might not be. It would depend on the situation as I assess it at that time. I've talked my way out of 2 hostage situations so far ... never know what next time's circumstances might be. Maybe play possum, but only until he has to reload ... I dunno, but I don't think I'd take pictures of him reloading and play possum forever .... I could have disarmed one of the two gunmen the first hostage situation I was in, after assessing the situation, I didn't ... wouldn't have been prudent at that time.
http://abcnews.go.com/WhatWouldYouDo/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


I'm just saying, there's a "type of people" willing to self-sacrifice and step in, even if they are without a utility belt.
Hugo Alfredo Tale-Yax , the one guy offering resistance to Cho at Virginia Tech ...

Batman rescues aren't exclusive to a few of that type person who happens to have a CHL, ... but they have better tools in their belt. I don't see that as a "bad" thing, even though I'm not a "Batman type"... armed or not. That's an individual trait, not restricted to armed persons, MOST people are NOT "Batman types" as that show illustrates ... People with better belts are just better equipped.