Opinion on Virginia one-hour online CHL valid in Texas.

[Griz44]

So, for all those who teach are/were selling the UTAH license class to Texas residents, what is your opinion on the Virginia license?
The ad hype is it only takes an hour to do the class on-line, requires no test and no proficiency and the background check is minimal.
Do we need a Texas restriction on this kind of license being offered here?
Are there any Texas instructors who think this is a good idea?

[Keith B]

Do you have a link to the Virginia class?

[Griz44]

Sure, let me find it......

[Griz44]

http://www.onlinegunclass.com/index.php ... s&catid=34

[RoyGBiv]

Please show me where in the US Constitution it says that a proficiency test and a 10 hour class are required for a US citizen to exercise their G-d-given right to self defense.



The ramifications of this in today's political environment are certainly an interesting discussion, but we'd be remiss not to start by acknowledging that even the Texas requirements are unconstitutional.

[Texas Dan Mosby]

Please show me where in the US Constitution it says that a proficiency test and a 10 hour class are required for a US citizen to exercise their G-d-given right to self defense.

I'm with this guy ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

[Griz44]

I do agree with you Roy, but unfortunately we do have laws on the books that we have to live by.
My question is simple, is this fair for TEXAS? All who know me understand that I defend Texas first, and would love to see us once more independent of the socialist shackles of the Union.
This issue was discussed in GREAT detail during the last legislative session, both here and in the Texas legislature, with specific regards to the UTAH issue. I agree, the issue is emotional and charged with strong opinions on all sides.
The issue still exists, and I suspect will continue to be an item of great debate until all the unconstitutional State of Texas and US laws are repealed, Texas once again becomes a free Country or equitable laws exist across all states.
My issue with licenses like the UTAH issue and now Virginia is that it takes away from this state and demeans the integrity of our own statutes that have been voted for and passed by our own people.
You may disagree with the foundation of the laws that we have now, as I do. However, without the rule of law, we fall into anarchy. We as a collective, can change the laws. We as a collective, need also to obey the laws we have until they can be changed by the will of the people. That is the function of a Republic.

And it's OK to say GOD, at least for now.

[Jumping Frog]

My issue with licenses like the UTAH issue and now Virginia is that it takes away from this state and demeans the integrity of our own statutes that have been voted for and passed by our own people.

Baloney.

The Texas statutes have a mechanism defined for establishing reciprocity with other states. If we do not like the other state's standards (which they also have a right to set for themselves), then we simply stop reciprocity with that state. How in the world is VA "demeaning the integrity of our own statutes" when we are the ones that chose to recognize their license?

[Purplehood]

I have to agree with the notion that carrying around a copy of the Bill of Rights should suffice for licensing issues.

[RoyGBiv]

My issue with licenses like the UTAH issue and now Virginia is that it takes away from this state and demeans the integrity of our own statutes that have been voted for and passed by our own people.

Baloney.

The Texas statutes have a mechanism defined for establishing reciprocity with other states. If we do not like the other state's standards (which they also have a right to set for themselves), then we simply stop reciprocity with that state. How in the world is VA "demeaning the integrity of our own statutes" when we are the ones that chose to recognize their license?

I think the OP is way off base... the whole premise of the argument is wrong.

1. Texas law is ok for Texas.... but... requiring a permit is unconstitutional regardless of whether your state has a permit law.
Do I need a permit to carry a knife? a baseball bat?, take martial arts training?
2. Texas recognizes VA permits... excellent
3. Somebody found a way to circumvent the VA process... Oops.
4. VA can decide to fix their law to close the loophole, or not.
5. IMO, the Texas permit is WAY expensive and the 10-hour class requirement is a waste of time for those of us that can read and understand CHL-16 without sitting in a classroom. While I think it's a great idea for everyone to pass a test on the TX law, why not make it like a drivers license test...?? Walk in, take the test, and if you pass... you pass? Why a 10-hour class? Just another obstacle (and expense) to satisfy the anti's.

So.... If I can mail in a form and get a VA license that TX will recognize... Great... I do not think it "cheapens" the TX license one bit. In fact, I have a FL license that I acquired in exactly that way about 10 years ago. FL accepted my NC license class as proof of training and after a background check they sent me a FL license. Done. I'd say it's incentive for TX to reduce it's burden for issuing a TX license to TX residents. When I arrived in TX, they took my NC drivers license and issued me a TX drivers license. I didn't have to take a written test or a driving test. Why not a similar courtesy for my NC carry permit? I am not one iota prouder to be carrying a "hard to get" Texas license and I feel no obligation to protect its "integrity".

[steveincowtown]

Please show me where in the US Constitution it says that a proficiency test and a 10 hour class are required for a US citizen to exercise their G-d-given right to self defense.



The ramifications of this in today's political environment are certainly an interesting discussion, but we'd be remiss not to start by acknowledging that even the Texas requirements are unconstitutional.

EXACTLY!

The problem isn't with VA laws, it is with Texas laws! I am greatly appreciative of all that people have done to further gun rights in the our fine state, but we can't lose sight of the fact that at the end of the day that the right to bear arms isn't a privilege afforded to us by Texas or VA laws, it is one given by the Constitution.

[Keith B]

The only issue I have with this and the Utah instructors who were causing problems was the way they advertise bypassing the Texas CHL. I don't have a problem with non-resident licenses or reciprocity at all, but I do have a problem when instructors rub our noses in the fact that Texans can do this. The problem is it throws up red flags to the anti-gun legislators (aka Ron Burnham) and the likes of him and they look to introduce legislation to prevent people from carrying in Texas on non-resident licenses. It happened last session. Luckily the bill never made it into the session, but if there is enough hoopla about it, then it may gain enough support to make it into discussion. Colorado has already stopped non-resident licenses from being allowed, Florida doesn't allow them (even though they issue them??), and several other states will not recognize a non-resident permit either. Even Utah changed their issuing to only give you a non-resident permit if you already had a resident permit from your state.

IMO, it is best to keep these type of things out of the limelight and just quietly carry on instead of trying to make a fast buck, get all you can and then have the fallout cause you to loose non-resident carry.

[RoyGBiv]

I guess it comes down to this.... Should Texas recognize an out of state license held by a Texas resident that does not also have a Texas license?

One easy solution would be to say NO...
Then the only issue becomes deciding which states to honor reciprocally, based on the standards of each States' license requirements.

Honestly, I'd rather Texas take a look at every state license program, pick the one's that they will honor and if I can get a reciprocal license for less cost and less hassle from Utah or Virginia, so be it. The question would then become a business decision..... If Texas sees fit to honor a VA permit, and Texas residents choose to forgo a TX permit in favor of VA, what can TX do to capture that revenue and better serve TX residents?

Really what it comes down to is that Texas needs to lower the hurdles it's erected. A TX permit is too expensive and the 10-hour class is unnecessary if you can show evidence of comparable training/proficiency and pass a free written exam that covers TX law, just like a free written driving test.

[Bullwhip]

My question is simple, is this fair for TEXAS?

If you sell widgets for $250 and the guy down the street sells widgets that do the same thing for $40, it's not right to ban the other guy from selling his widgets. The right thing is to get competitive.

[Keith B]

The big difference today is the class requirements. Most instructors are not going to do a full Texas class for $50 including the shooting portion.

Getting anyone (legislature) to reduce the requirements for CHL in Texas to those in Virginia will not happen (at least not within the next decade I'll bet.) So, the only option the anti-gun legislators will try to do in their typical knee-jerk style is to invalidate out of state non-resident licenses.