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Some of you may know that Montana is a traditional open carry state, which means you do not need a license to carry out in the open. They do, however, require a license if you are going to carry concealed. I went to Montana a couple weeks ago for my friend's wedding, so I decided to try open carrying. A few observations:

1. It is very liberating to just be able to carry out in the open, not having to worry about "failure to conceal" etc
2. Walking along the street, people definitely look at the gun, almost immediately after eyes meet
3. Most people there didn't seem to care that I was openly carrying. Only one person ever asked me anything about it, and he was the cashier at Office Depot who asked, "Are you a security professional?" to which I replied, "No, just an ordinary citizen much like yourself"
4. I didn't see anyone else in Billings, Big Timber, or Bozeman open carrying, but I doubt I was the only one. Opencarry.org Montana forums seemed to have some people on there.
5. Montana is beautiful. Oh wait, that has nothing to do with open carrying. But it is worth mentioning
6. You still are somewhat self concious about your peacemaker, but I suppose after a few days/weeks of open carrying I wouldn't think anything about it.
7. Overall I think open carry is great. I don't think there is any reason to think that open carry couldn't/wouldn't work here in Texas.

dukesean wrote:Some of you may know that Montana is a traditional open carry state, which means you do not need a license to carry out in the open. They do, however, require a license if you are going to carry concealed. I went to Montana a couple weeks ago for my friend's wedding, so I decided to try open carrying. A few observations:

1. It is very liberating to just be able to carry out in the open, not having to worry about "failure to conceal" etc
2. Walking along the street, people definitely look at the gun, almost immediately after eyes meet
3. Most people there didn't seem to care that I was openly carrying. Only one person ever asked me anything about it, and he was the cashier at Office Depot who asked, "Are you a security professional?" to which I replied, "No, just an ordinary citizen much like yourself"
4. I didn't see anyone else in Billings, Big Timber, or Bozeman open carrying, but I doubt I was the only one. Opencarry.org Montana forums seemed to have some people on there.
5. Montana is beautiful. Oh wait, that has nothing to do with open carrying. But it is worth mentioning
6. You still are somewhat self concious about your peacemaker, but I suppose after a few days/weeks of open carrying I wouldn't think anything about it.
7. Overall I think open carry is great. I don't think there is any reason to think that open carry couldn't/wouldn't work here in Texas.

Does that even make sense?....Concealed - you need a license. Yet, open carry is alright...Where is the logic?...

It would be cool to just walk around and not have to conceal...

longhorn_92 wrote: Does that even make sense?....Concealed - you need a license. Yet, open carry is alright...Where is the logic?...

It would be cool to just walk around and not have to conceal...

Well, you really shouldn't need a license to do either as far as I'm concerned, all licenses do is inconvenience the law abiding population. But, if it's any consolation apparently it's fairly easy to get your concealed permit from the sherriff.

Excellent report & observations. I find the less the carrier worries about the gun, the less others think of it too.
Which is basically what you said in #3.

Very nice... I imagine it would be pretty liberating. Wish we could do that here.

I've already made up my mind that I'd carry openly more as a political statement than anything and to raise awareness, but would probably have a concealed backup as well.

I agree, we shouldn't need a license as either, but wouldn't mind requiring like a special stamp on your drives license or something to certify that you're not a felon and are allowed to own/carry. I really think that's about as far as licensing should go, but i digress as that's not really at issue here.

I might have to vacation in Montana sometime just to give that a try :)

Thanks for sharing.

longhorn_92 wrote:Does that even make sense?....Concealed - you need a license. Yet, open carry is alright...Where is the logic?...

The logic is rooted in the historical view of carrying handguns, where honest citizens were openly armed, but criminals concealed their guns for an element of surprise.

That's why most states are (technically, at least) "open carry" states: their laws only forbid concealed carry without a license. At the time those laws were passed, it was seen as only applying to those with criminal intent. "Good guys" could carry openly, or could easily get a permit if they needed to carry concealed.

It is a liberating feeling. You don't have to go all the way to Montana, though. You can enjoy OC in New Mexico or Louisiana, too.

I agree with KBCraig‘s assessment however OC is protected by the second amendment. Texas law is plainly and unconditionally unconstitutional and should be challenged. I recently moved back home to Texas from 20 years in the DC area as a contractor to the feds. Virginia is an OC state. I held a VA CCL but often open carried. I know it is a bit confusing for some Texans, they somehow think that this is backwards. However many in VA wanted the CCL passed because in winter in the northern VA (it snows there) it is impossible to OC in a heavy coat. With a CCL put on a coat your legal… take it off, your still legal. The attitude in VA about OC is that is what the 2nd. amendment is about. VA is one of the original thirteen colonies and the home of many of the framers of the Bill of Rights. As you know recently the SCOTUS reaffirmed the Second Amendment as an individual right. As understood by most Virginians and by me... the original intent of the Bill of Rights was to affirm rights granted by God and “shall not be infringed” by government… free speech, the right to assemble, redress of grievances, freedom of religion, and the right to bear arms among the 1st and 2nd. Wearing a gun on your hip in plain sight is a normal way to "bear" a pistol. Virginians were often jaw dropping shocked to find OC was illegal in Texas. They would ask, "How is that possible to outlaw a constitutional right?" I could only shrug. I did not know then and I sure do not know now. It was kind of embarrassing. Yet upon my return to Texas I had to give up my constitutional right to OC. I could no longer openly carry my pistol on my hip. As my beloved state of Texas is one of only six of the 50 that outlaws open carry. In Virginia as far as Open Carry, no license is required for a God given and constitutionally protected right. We Texans have all been lead to believe that Open Carry being illegal was "normal". It is NOT! It is an aboration and a violation of the Constitution... it is a simple as that.

What I would like to see is the Texas Constitution amended to not allow the government to control the "wearing of arms" at all. That, however, may take the 14 Amendment of the COTUS to be ruled as applying to the states, as it should for all rights outlined in the COTUS. That is not to say the state should do away with CHL as to allow us to carry in other states. Being, if you want to get one you can and have the pay a fee, get the background checks, fingerprints, conflict resolution, federally off-limits areas, and shooting proficiency and whatever else that will allow us to be able to carry in other states. I say that because some states do not except non-resident licenses.

If we cannot get the Texas Constitution changed they should write the law so that handguns are looked at the same way as long guns. Guns and the law abiding should be a non-issue as far as the state is concerned. I personally am embarrassed and offended by the open disregard of the state for the God given rights of the people of this state. Just because it has been that way for a long time doesn't make it right in any way. This is the time for us to move on this issue before the recent SCOTUS decision is downplayed or fizzles out.

That is my opinion.

and a good opinion, in my opinion.

I will admit to some ambivalence on the open carry issue, but two incidents in the last two days have tipped me over the edge to favoring OC.

My wife and I went out for dinner, at IHOP last night, and having worked on the house pretty hard during the day, all we did was scoot over in shorts and t-shirts. Of course I am not comfortable being out of the house without one or another of my carry guns, so I slipped on my Kydex and a .45, and of course my cover garment. Arriving at the restaurant, we ran into friends, and a remark was made about the temperature outside and my attire.

I laughed it off by producing a variety of objects from my pockets, my harmonica, a digital camera, a pocket tool and some Life Savers and Dubble Bubble, and my wife supported me with a comment about my never having enough pockets for all the things I "need" to carry, and left it at that. I congratulated her on her bon mot double entendre later, but I would have been more comfortable, in several ways, if OC were a common thing and that's what I was doing - I always feel a little uncomfortable revealing that I am carrying, even to friends.

Tonight was a different, I drove my wife's car to work and when I left work I didn't rearm. I picked my wife up at home and we left for a Bible study class, stopping at a fast food Tex-Mex place on the way. When we stopped in the parking lot I still hadn't rearmed and there were several people exiting cars near ours so I didn't feel comfortable retrieving my gun, holstering up, and covering up right there and went inside unarmed - boy was I aware of my condition throughout our quick meal. I sure would have OCed there.

Welcome aboard ELK-TEX and an excellent post. Some of us in the heat never really thought of the problems w/ trying to stay warm & yet not cover up your arms if there was no CC. The heat would make OC a lot more tolerable in the heat of today & next month.

Take a look at "http://www.firearmsandliberty.com/cramer.racism.html" for a good discussion of the reasons Texas outlaws OC. It is deeply rooted in the racist laws originating from reconstruction following the Civil War, but with the civil rights movement of the 60's the laws came to apply to everyone. What they should have done was repeal the racist laws, but instead began enforcing them against everyone.

Morons, all of them -- those that promoted racism through the law and those that didn't dispose of it when they had the opportunity.

ELK-TEX wrote:I agree with KBCraig‘s assessment however OC is protected by the second amendment. Texas law is plainly and unconditionally unconstitutional and should be challenged. I recently moved back home to Texas from 20 years in the DC area as a contractor to the feds. Virginia is an OC state. I held a VA CCL but often open carried. I know it is a bit confusing for some Texans, they somehow think that this is backwards. However many in VA wanted the CCL passed because in winter in the northern VA (it snows there) it is impossible to OC in a heavy coat. With a CCL put on a coat your legal… take it off, your still legal. The attitude in VA about OC is that is what the 2nd. amendment is about. VA is one of the original thirteen colonies and the home of many of the framers of the Bill of Rights. As you know recently the SCOTUS reaffirmed the Second Amendment as an individual right. As understood by most Virginians and by me... the original intent of the Bill of Rights was to affirm rights granted by God and “shall not be infringed” by government… free speech, the right to assemble, redress of grievances, freedom of religion, and the right to bear arms among the 1st and 2nd. Wearing a gun on your hip in plain sight is a normal way to "bear" a pistol. Virginians were often jaw dropping shocked to find OC was illegal in Texas. They would ask, "How is that possible to outlaw a constitutional right?" I could only shrug. I did not know then and I sure do not know now. It was kind of embarrassing. Yet upon my return to Texas I had to give up my constitutional right to OC. I could no longer openly carry my pistol on my hip. As my beloved state of Texas is one of only six of the 50 that outlaws open carry. In Virginia as far as Open Carry, no license is required for a God given and constitutionally protected right. We Texans have all been lead to believe that Open Carry being illegal was "normal". It is NOT! It is an aboration and a violation of the Constitution... it is a simple as that.

Fascinating...

My Dad is leaving on a trip to Yellowstone Nat'l Park soon, and I am conjuring up some data for his trip...I think I have everything covered, except the definitive answer on carry in Yellowstone...

Wonder if he'll consider open carrying while he's up there...

He's got the picture on the whole airline requirements, and the system to do so...

So we only have one more thing to get figured out...

Sorry, as you said Yellowstone is a Park. Guns are a nogo at all. Unloaded and cased at the least, maybe tied.

gmckinl wrote:Sorry, as you said Yellowstone is a Park. Guns are a nogo at all. Unloaded and cased at the least, maybe tied.

Of course this should change before too long as Wyoming (where a majority of Yellowstone lies) recognizes TX CHLs, and thus the park should sometime after the first of the year. Having recently moved to WY I've only seen a few people OC, but as the weather cools there are a lot more coats being worn, so who knows. I suspect I'll have to wait till spring/summer to see the full extent of OC in this state. And once that happens I'll have to make up my mind as to whether to try out OC for myself. I can tell you one thing though, concealed carry is a lot easier up here with one of these monster coats on. I don't think I've carried IWB but once since I've been here, I guess its a nice trade off for the -10 degree temp.