Missouri Lawakers Override Governors Veto

[jmra]

I was not being condescending. I was making a point using English vocabulary and trying to be a little bit light about it. There does need to be more uniformity and responsibility in privileges for children. For example, we have a huge problem with dropouts and functional illiterates. You want to drive a car? You have to be making passing grades in school at grade level to get a license at 16. You get to drive for 12 months and if you are still at grade level with at least a 2.0 gpa then you get another year. If you graduate with at least a 2.0 legitimate gpa then you get a regular license. Otherwise you don't get to drive until maybe 19. Most likely the dropout rate will nearly disappear.

That's a great idea. Let's get government even more involved in fixing a problem they created to begin with.

[victory]

Can somebody help me understand what this has to do with the Missouri law? You guys lost me a couple pages back.

[Keith B]

Can somebody help me understand what this has to do with the Missouri law? You guys lost me a couple pages back.

Bill that just passed lowers Missouri's CHL age for everyone to 19, and to 18 for Military.

[mojo84]

Keith, I didn't see when this will take effect. Did you?

[Keith B]

Keith, I didn't see when this will take effect. Did you?

It takes effect 30 days from date of the override, which will be October 10

[mojo84]

Thanks. It will be interesting to see how this works out in the short and long term. I'm not expecting any major changes in crime rates or other issues. Hopefully, we will see crime rates drop some.

[Keith B]

BTW, there are other items in the bill including restrictions on health care professionals recording info about firearm ownership, as well as restricting employers of those professionals from asking about their possession Here is the summary of the bill: http://www.senate.mo.gov/14info/BTS_Web ... D=28098814" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[mojo84]

I like these in particular

In addition, no person carrying a concealed or unconcealed handgun may be disarmed or physically restrained by a law enforcement officer unless under arrest or if there is no reasonable and articulable suspicion of criminal activity. Any person who violates these provisions may be issued a citation for up to $35.

This act specifies that no licensed health care professional or person under the supervision of the professional may not be required by law to ask a patient whether he or she owns or has access to a firearm, document firearm ownership or access in a patient's medical records, or notify any governmental entity of the identity of a patient based solely on the patient's status as a firearm owner or the patient's access to a firearm.

Under current law, a person, who is not a member of the United States Armed Forces or honorably discharged from the armed forces, must be at least 21 years of age in order to qualify for a concealed carry endorsement. This act lowers the age to at least 19 years of age.

There are a couple others of which I either do not have a strong opinion or disagree. Overall, it seems to be some good steps in the right direction.

[VMI77]

Is this just your opinion, or can you cite me any actual research data which shows that teenagers suffer greater emotional trauma than adults do, after having been involved in a legitimate use of deadly force in self-defense?

Personally, I think I would have been less affected when I was 16 than I would be now, for a number of reasons. By being married and having children I have developed greater empathy for other people. In the ignorance of my youth I wasn't particularly concerned about the possible legal trauma, just right and wrong. At that age the world had fewer shades of grey and a lot of black and white. I was more prepared to act aggressively and less inclined to deescalate. I was seeking a career in the military and stupidly anxious to fight for what's right. I used to hunt everything that was legal to hunt and something like killing a deer didn't bother me at all. Now I can't bring myself to kill any animal, except poisonous snakes that threaten my dogs or my wife by their proximity to our living space, and I no longer go hunting.

[MeMelYup]

Is this just your opinion, or can you cite me any actual research data which shows that teenagers suffer greater emotional trauma than adults do, after having been involved in a legitimate use of deadly force in self-defense?

Personally, I think I would have been less affected when I was 16 than I would be now, for a number of reasons. By being married and having children I have developed greater empathy for other people. In the ignorance of my youth I wasn't particularly concerned about the possible legal trauma, just right and wrong. At that age the world had fewer shades of grey and a lot of black and white. I was more prepared to act aggressively and less inclined to deescalate. I was seeking a career in the military and stupidly anxious to fight for what's right. I used to hunt everything that was legal to hunt and something like killing a deer didn't bother me at all. Now I can't bring myself to kill any animal, except poisonous snakes that threaten my dogs or my wife by their proximity to our living space, and I no longer go hunting.

I haven't hunted in years either. I think the difference is I don't Need to hunt to keep my family fed. If the U.S. Went into another Great Depression you would see a lot more people hunting and growing gardens, among other things.

[VMI77]

Is this just your opinion, or can you cite me any actual research data which shows that teenagers suffer greater emotional trauma than adults do, after having been involved in a legitimate use of deadly force in self-defense?

Personally, I think I would have been less affected when I was 16 than I would be now, for a number of reasons. By being married and having children I have developed greater empathy for other people. In the ignorance of my youth I wasn't particularly concerned about the possible legal trauma, just right and wrong. At that age the world had fewer shades of grey and a lot of black and white. I was more prepared to act aggressively and less inclined to deescalate. I was seeking a career in the military and stupidly anxious to fight for what's right. I used to hunt everything that was legal to hunt and something like killing a deer didn't bother me at all. Now I can't bring myself to kill any animal, except poisonous snakes that threaten my dogs or my wife by their proximity to our living space, and I no longer go hunting.

I haven't hunted in years either. I think the difference is I don't Need to hunt to keep my family fed. If the U.S. Went into another Great Depression you would see a lot more people hunting and growing gardens, among other things.

I agree. I will do what I have to do, I just take no joy in killing an animal.

[Jim Beaux]

I debated on starting a new thread or continuing with this one.

For the record I favor constitutional carry, though I am conflicted (or inconsistent ) as to what age.

I assumed the article is by a lib so I found where her stats probably originated & posted below.

The numbers are sobering when we look at young men. In the United States, for example, young white males (between age 14 and 24) represent only 6% of the population, yet commit almost 17% of the murders. For young black males, the numbers are even more alarming (1.2% of the population accounting for 27% of all homicides). Together, these two groups of young men make up just 7% of the population and 45% of the homicides. Overall, 90% of all violent offenders are male, as are nearly 80% of the victims.

http://www.cnn.com/2012/07/24/opinion/c ... s-homicide

TRENDS IN JUVENILE VIOLENCE
A Report to the United States Attorney General
on Current and Future Rates of Juvenile Offending
James Alan Fox, Ph.D.
Dean, College of Criminal Justice
Northeastern University
Boston, Massachusetts 02115
Prepared for the Bureau of Justice Statistics
United States Department of Justice
Washington, D.C.
March 1996

http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/tjvfox2.pdf

The above report shows a growing trend of teenage violence & validates the necessity of defensive weapon carry.

It also fuels a new dilemma for me - Stats show our children are exposed to growing violence in their peer group, should the CHL age limit be lowered to 18 (and of course campus carry) - or, because the age group is prone to more violent reaction & immature judgment, should the age limit stay at 21?

I hear my grass growing, time to mow!

[K.Mooneyham]

I debated on starting a new thread or continuing with this one.

For the record I favor constitutional carry, though I am conflicted (or inconsistent ) as to what age.

I assumed the article is by a lib so I found where her stats probably originated & posted below.

The numbers are sobering when we look at young men. In the United States, for example, young white males (between age 14 and 24) represent only 6% of the population, yet commit almost 17% of the murders. For young black males, the numbers are even more alarming (1.2% of the population accounting for 27% of all homicides). Together, these two groups of young men make up just 7% of the population and 45% of the homicides. Overall, 90% of all violent offenders are male, as are nearly 80% of the victims.

http://www.cnn.com/2012/07/24/opinion/c ... s-homicide

TRENDS IN JUVENILE VIOLENCE
A Report to the United States Attorney General
on Current and Future Rates of Juvenile Offending
James Alan Fox, Ph.D.
Dean, College of Criminal Justice
Northeastern University
Boston, Massachusetts 02115
Prepared for the Bureau of Justice Statistics
United States Department of Justice
Washington, D.C.
March 1996

http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/tjvfox2.pdf

The above report shows a growing trend of teenage violence & validates the necessity of defensive weapon carry.

It also fuels a new dilemma for me - Stats show our children are exposed to growing violence in their peer group, should the CHL age limit be lowered to 18 (and of course campus carry) - or, because the age group is prone to more violent reaction & immature judgment, should the age limit stay at 21?

I hear my grass growing, time to mow!

The violence that more and more young people are exposed to is the gang "culture". Its a very blatant lifestyle, "get rich or die trying" to quote a rap track. More young black people are in that lifestyle than others, but it is no longer exclusive to black communities and hasn't been for years. Seriously, you might laugh, but I'd love to see some new musical trend come out that would capture kids attention away from that stuff. In the meantime, one must stay armed and vigilant.

[mojo84]

Homicide and murder are two different things. Makes me wonder about their stats.