Traveling by air to PA -- via Newark

[jimlongley]

The only question I have at this point is when I get my bag from baggage claim in Newark (with my gun in the locked/hardside container) and walk to the rental car, am I still traveling per the USC18 with my journey ending in PA. If I bring a firearm, I'll leave it with my dad in PA vs dealing with checking it on the return trip.

I'll probably end up just not bringing a firearm. What an absurd situation with NJ/NY gun laws....

And believe me, I looked at options for Philadelphia, Allentown, Harrisburg, and AVP (Avoca - Scranton/WB - which is where my destination is). I despise Newark airport, but the price and schedules worked out favorably for a family of 4 with 2 little kids. Direct flight Austin-Newark leaving at 1030am. :)

Once you get off the plane, per their interpretation, your trip is not uninterrupted, and the gun in the bag becomes accessible as soon as you claim it, therefore, if they find out you have it, you will be arrested.

[ralewis]

The only question I have at this point is when I get my bag from baggage claim in Newark (with my gun in the locked/hardside container) and walk to the rental car, am I still traveling per the USC18 with my journey ending in PA. If I bring a firearm, I'll leave it with my dad in PA vs dealing with checking it on the return trip.

I'll probably end up just not bringing a firearm. What an absurd situation with NJ/NY gun laws....

And believe me, I looked at options for Philadelphia, Allentown, Harrisburg, and AVP (Avoca - Scranton/WB - which is where my destination is). I despise Newark airport, but the price and schedules worked out favorably for a family of 4 with 2 little kids. Direct flight Austin-Newark leaving at 1030am. :)

Once you get off the plane, per their interpretation, your trip is not uninterrupted, and the gun in the bag becomes accessible as soon as you claim it, therefore, if they find out you have it, you will be arrested.

This information is from the New Jersey State Police web site which was linked from the Newark Airport site. Seems pretty clear NJ laws don't apply if an individual is transporting a firearm thru the state. This seems to fit the scenario I have. I did send an inquiry to the State Police with my specific question though. I will post a reply if I receive one.

http://www.state.nj.us/njsp/about/fire_trans.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The following guidelines are provided in order to assist law enforcement officers in applying New Jersey's firearms laws to persons who are transporting firearms through the State of New Jersey.

New Jersey laws governing firearms permits, purchaser identification cards, registration and licenses do not apply to a person who is transporting the firearm through this State if that person is transporting the firearm in a manner permitted by federal law, 18 U.S.C.A. 926A.

[RoyGBiv]

Your time in the airport is considered a "Destination" and at this particular "destination" you are not allowed by local law to have a gun, so, FOPA/18 U.S.C.A. 926A does not apply. Good luck getting a different answer out of NJSP. If you do, be sure you've got it in writing and signed. Such a signed letter will be very helpful to your defense.

I'm not sure I can be any clearer... I WOULD NEVER EVEN CONSIDER checking my firearm if my plan required picking up the bag in New Jersey.

If I was driving from TX to, say, NH, my gun would be legal on both ends. I would NOT stop for the night at a NJ hotel, even though I believe FOPA would protect me at a hotel, as long as it's close to the highway and along my planned route. I can find no case law on whether your arrest at Newark can successfully be defended by claiming you are on a FOPA-protected journey. I can find MUCHO case law proving that a New York man cannot travel to NH via a NY airport, even though his gun is legal in his home and legal in NH. Test cases tend to be expensive. This deck is stacked against you.

Recommend: Against.

[mikeloc]

Your time in the airport is considered a "Destination" and at this particular "destination" you are not allowed by local law to have a gun, so, FOPA/18 U.S.C.A. 926A does not apply. Good luck getting a different answer out of NJSP. If you do, be sure you've got it in writing and signed. Such a signed letter will be very helpful to your defense.

I'm not sure I can be any clearer... I WOULD NEVER EVEN CONSIDER checking my firearm if my plan required picking up the bag in New Jersey.

Picking up the bag should not be a problem. The problem will be checking it at the airline for the return trip when they call the port authority. I would ship it to myself via UPS or Fedx.

Mike

[ralewis]

Your time in the airport is considered a "Destination" and at this particular "destination" you are not allowed by local law to have a gun, so, FOPA/18 U.S.C.A. 926A does not apply. Good luck getting a different answer out of NJSP. If you do, be sure you've got it in writing and signed. Such a signed letter will be very helpful to your defense.

I'm not sure I can be any clearer... I WOULD NEVER EVEN CONSIDER checking my firearm if my plan required picking up the bag in New Jersey.

If I was driving from TX to, say, NH, my gun would be legal on both ends. I would NOT stop for the night at a NJ hotel, even though I believe FOPA would protect me at a hotel, as long as it's close to the highway and along my planned route. I can find no case law on whether your arrest at Newark can successfully be defended by claiming you are on a FOPA-protected journey. I can find MUCHO case law proving that a New York man cannot travel to NH via a NY airport, even though his gun is legal in his home and legal in NH. Test cases tend to be expensive. This deck is stacked against you.

Recommend: Against.

Oh. I get what your saying. Loud and clear. I'm just trying to understand the what the official interpretation of the law by NJ is. I've read a bit travel accounts of folks who've successfully checked firearms also with the caveat that the firearm was not removed from the locked container. So, they don't seem to arrest everyone, and there does seem to be a way to do what I was considering.

I'll probably just not bring it (or mail it), but I'm really curious to separate what reality is from the anecdotal and occasional news story.

[ralewis]

After 6 weeks (well past when I actually traveled) , I did finally receive a response from the NJ Attorney General/NJ State Police saying that it is perfectly legal to fly to Newark and drive thru NJ as long as I was in compliance Federal and NJ firearms laws governing transportation of a firearm.

Trip was in early February, and did not bring a firearm with me…

Response posted below:

Subject: NJ Firearm Inquiry

AG14-035

March 27, 2014



Your inquiry to the Office of the Attorney General, Citizen Services, regarding the transportation of your firearm from Newark Airport to Pennsylvania has been forwarded to the New Jersey State Police, Firearms Investigation Unit for a response.

You indicated in your correspondence you are traveling with a firearm from Texas to Newark Airport then continuing your travels to Pennsylvania. As long as you follow the appropriate procedures as per the airline you are utilizing, you may obtain your firearm at Newark Airport and travel through New Jersey with a legally owned firearm. Your travels through New Jersey must be in accordance with Federal and New Jersey State laws (See N.J.S. 2C:39-6.g. - transportation of firearms - listed below). For further guidance, you may wish to contact the NY/NJ Port Authority at: 800.828.7273.

N.J.S. 2C:39-6.g. Exemptions (Transportation):
g. All weapons being transported under paragraph (2) of subsection b., subsection e., or paragraph (1) or (3) of subsection f. of this section shall be carried unloaded and contained in a closed and fastened case, gunbox, securely tied package, or locked in the trunk of the automobile in which it is being transported, and in the course of travel shall include only such deviations as are reasonably necessary under the circumstances.

If you have any further concerns or questions, please call me directly at 609-882-2000, extension 2555.
Sincerely,

DSFC Glenn Ross #5092
Assistant Unit Head
Firearms Investigation Unit

FOR COLONEL JOSEPH R. FUENTES
SUPERINTENDENT

[jimlongley]

After 6 weeks (well past when I actually traveled) , I did finally receive a response from the NJ Attorney General/NJ State Police saying that it is perfectly legal to fly to Newark and drive thru NJ as long as I was in compliance Federal and NJ firearms laws governing transportation of a firearm.

Trip was in early February, and did not bring a firearm with me…

Response posted below:

Subject: NJ Firearm Inquiry

AG14-035

March 27, 2014



Your inquiry to the Office of the Attorney General, Citizen Services, regarding the transportation of your firearm from Newark Airport to Pennsylvania has been forwarded to the New Jersey State Police, Firearms Investigation Unit for a response.

You indicated in your correspondence you are traveling with a firearm from Texas to Newark Airport then continuing your travels to Pennsylvania. As long as you follow the appropriate procedures as per the airline you are utilizing, you may obtain your firearm at Newark Airport and travel through New Jersey with a legally owned firearm. Your travels through New Jersey must be in accordance with Federal and New Jersey State laws (See N.J.S. 2C:39-6.g. - transportation of firearms - listed below). For further guidance, you may wish to contact the NY/NJ Port Authority at: 800.828.7273.

N.J.S. 2C:39-6.g. Exemptions (Transportation):
g. All weapons being transported under paragraph (2) of subsection b., subsection e., or paragraph (1) or (3) of subsection f. of this section shall be carried unloaded and contained in a closed and fastened case, gunbox, securely tied package, or locked in the trunk of the automobile in which it is being transported, and in the course of travel shall include only such deviations as are reasonably necessary under the circumstances.

If you have any further concerns or questions, please call me directly at 609-882-2000, extension 2555.
Sincerely,

DSFC Glenn Ross #5092
Assistant Unit Head
Firearms Investigation Unit

FOR COLONEL JOSEPH R. FUENTES
SUPERINTENDENT

It figures that they would send it this late, saying this.

[chasfm11]

After 6 weeks (well past when I actually traveled) , I did finally receive a response from the NJ Attorney General/NJ State Police saying that it is perfectly legal to fly to Newark and drive thru NJ as long as I was in compliance Federal and NJ firearms laws governing transportation of a firearm.

Trip was in early February, and did not bring a firearm with me…

Response posted below:

Subject: NJ Firearm Inquiry

AG14-035

March 27, 2014



Your inquiry to the Office of the Attorney General, Citizen Services, regarding the transportation of your firearm from Newark Airport to Pennsylvania has been forwarded to the New Jersey State Police, Firearms Investigation Unit for a response.

You indicated in your correspondence you are traveling with a firearm from Texas to Newark Airport then continuing your travels to Pennsylvania. As long as you follow the appropriate procedures as per the airline you are utilizing, you may obtain your firearm at Newark Airport and travel through New Jersey with a legally owned firearm. Your travels through New Jersey must be in accordance with Federal and New Jersey State laws (See N.J.S. 2C:39-6.g. - transportation of firearms - listed below). For further guidance, you may wish to contact the NY/NJ Port Authority at: 800.828.7273.

N.J.S. 2C:39-6.g. Exemptions (Transportation):
g. All weapons being transported under paragraph (2) of subsection b., subsection e., or paragraph (1) or (3) of subsection f. of this section shall be carried unloaded and contained in a closed and fastened case, gunbox, securely tied package, or locked in the trunk of the automobile in which it is being transported, and in the course of travel shall include only such deviations as are reasonably necessary under the circumstances.

If you have any further concerns or questions, please call me directly at 609-882-2000, extension 2555.
Sincerely,

DSFC Glenn Ross #5092
Assistant Unit Head
Firearms Investigation Unit

FOR COLONEL JOSEPH R. FUENTES
SUPERINTENDENT

I find the absence of any mention of hollow point ammo very interesting. For that alone, they can prosecute you.

[Jumping Frog]

After 6 weeks (well past when I actually traveled) , I did finally receive a response from the NJ Attorney General/NJ State Police saying that it is perfectly legal to fly to Newark and drive thru NJ as long as I was in compliance Federal and NJ firearms laws governing transportation of a firearm.

Traveling from Texas to Newark to PA, where I simply picked up my locked luggage at Newark airport, would not worry me.

However, the return trip where I arrive at Newark airport trying to check my firearm through to Texas? That would worry me. I notice he did not answer that question.

[jimlongley]

After 6 weeks (well past when I actually traveled) , I did finally receive a response from the NJ Attorney General/NJ State Police saying that it is perfectly legal to fly to Newark and drive thru NJ as long as I was in compliance Federal and NJ firearms laws governing transportation of a firearm.

Traveling from Texas to Newark to PA, where I simply picked up my locked luggage at Newark airport, would not worry me.

However, the return trip where I arrive at Newark airport trying to check my firearm through to Texas? That would worry me. I notice he did not answer that question.

That too.

[RoyGBiv]

After 6 weeks (well past when I actually traveled) , I did finally receive a response from the NJ Attorney General/NJ State Police saying that it is perfectly legal to fly to Newark and drive thru NJ as long as I was in compliance Federal and NJ firearms laws governing transportation of a firearm.

Traveling from Texas to Newark to PA, where I simply picked up my locked luggage at Newark airport, would not worry me.

However, the return trip where I arrive at Newark airport trying to check my firearm through to Texas? That would worry me. I notice he did not answer that question.

No way Jose. Not gonna do it.

Did you receive that reply on April 1st?

Would be great if you could post that letter in PDF or JPG format so I can have a copy for my records.
Easy to black out your personal info using a JPG editor.

[anygunanywhere]

I would not trust anyone in NJ assuring me for anything related to legally transporting firearms, no matter how many pieces of documentation I could print and carry.

It is NJ, and it is Newark airport.

I have flown in and out of that pit many times, and driven to and from PA from that pit many times.

It is not worth the risk.

Anygunanywhere

[ralewis]

I don't plan on traveling by air thru Newark with a firearm, and I'll just go thru Philadelphia next time. Just providing the response. Also noting that it took 6 weeks to get a response. Letter attached.

[VMI77]

Oh, that's why I'm asking. One idea I've had it to leave it with my parents vs. checking it on the way back. My dad has a PA CHL, and I'm sure would be happy to have it.

That being said, what I've read so far seems to indicate that if I have it locked and unaccessible while in NJ with the exception of the check in procedure I should be ok. The issue 'seems' to be taking possession of a gun in NJ with out one of their silly gun ownership permits.

You need to read about the guy who had his gun locked and inaccessible, in the trunk of his car, parked in the driveway of his parent's home. He got five years in prison. I wouldn't set foot in New Jersey under any circumstances.

[RoyGBiv]

I don't plan on traveling by air thru Newark with a firearm, and I'll just go thru Philadelphia next time. Just providing the response. Also noting that it took 6 weeks to get a response. Letter attached.

Thanks a bunch.!

Still don't plan to go, but, you never know where a wayward flight might land.