Oklahoma Open Carry becomes law

[Heartland Patriot]

I can't seem to remember this one, so someone help me out please. Is it legal to open carry on YOUR OWN PROPERTY, or PROPERTY UNDER YOUR DIRECT CONTROL (such as a property you are renting/leasing) in the State of Texas? Yes, I know about "in a manner calculated to alarm". I'm not talking about walking down a street open carrying, but only on one's own property. (This was part of the bill that was signed into law in OK.)

Yes it is legal in TX to open carry in your property or property under your direct control. Have you ever been to a gun store? Almost every gun store I have been to, the employees are open carrying inside the store. Never seen anyone arrested, even though I have seen plenty of policemen shopping there.

Alright, I thought so, but just wasn't sure. I've heard (yeah, I know how that works) that IF a person is too close to a road, or inside a city limits, that they will have issues with law enforcement if they are out on their property walking around with a firearm in the open. I'm not saying pointing it at folks or cars or anything like that, just in a holster, for instance. It would seem that the OK law makes it a little clearer that its alright to have it in the open on your property. We shouldn't have to write every little situation down into law, but because of antis and overzealous types, it seems to be perhaps it might a good thing to clarify the situation.

[Heartland Patriot]

Can you still carry concealed...in an open carry state?

Open Carry just seems like way to a bunch of daily trouble I don't need. No disrespect to anyone, but it's just not for me.

I don't think they made it MANDATORY to open carry, just an option if you are licensed.

[Charles L. Cotton]

Uh oh. According to board legend, signs will be going up everywhere they can be placed. Carry will be restricted for all and the police will get constant MWAG calls and have no idea how to handle them.


....we shall see.

Show us where people here on the Forum said this would happen in other states. The concern is a repeat of what we saw in Texas from 1995 until Sept. 1, 1997 when 30.06 became effective. I don't recall anyone saying what would happen in other states that don't have the recent history experienced here in Texas.

Part of the issue here in Texas is that tons of people think we have it so great with the 30.06 signs. I would much rather have a law like VA's that says a signs is effective notice, but if your didn't notice the sign the property owner still must ask you to leave, and you must refuse to, before you can be charged with trespassing.

Losing TPC §30.06 would be a huge step backwards! Anyone who was here in 1995 knows of the epidemic of generic no-guns signs that were popping up on businesses. Contrast that with the very few enforceable 30.06 signs.

Chas.

[jeffrw]

Back on topic, can't wait to vacation in OK.

Don't pack your bags just yet. The law doesn't actually take effect until November. Also, I would like to see more clarification on whether you have to have an Oklahoma handgun license, or merely a license from any state that Oklahoma recognizes.

As for me, I will probably remain concealed even where OC is an option. I would rather not have to deal with the occasional store employee saying, "Hey, you can't have that gun in here!" Out of sight is out of mind. Plus, if you inadvertently carry somewhere you're not supposed to, your odds of avoiding trouble are obviously much better if it's concealed.

[RSJ]

I will update if I start to notice gun busters or no gun signs, as I said before I haven't really seen them outside of the typical no carry places; airport, bar, arena etc.
Still waiting to see if my TX CHL will allow me OC here in OK.

[Charles L. Cotton]

It's amazing what can happen in a truly conservative state.

True...esp. in a truly conservative state that has a state rifle association that is NOT run by a CHL-Instructor mafia.....


....OK, Texans....are we really as free & RKBA as the rest of the country thinks we are?.....

Who do you mean?

Chas.

Still waiting for an answer. I see you Have logged in so please tell who you mean.

Chas.

[fickman]

I know Chas isn't calling me out, but all I intended to communicate is that OK seems to be a trendsetter now in true conservative laws, not just in 2nd Amendment legislation. They are also a lot darker red in the shaded maps and seems to get significant bills passed with much less panic and fanfare than we can accomplish.

In our last session, we came so close to having campus carry, which many of us here viewed as a priority. It caused an uproar in the media, the urban areas, and the suburbs. We got the parking lot bill through but with some unfortunate limitations that a lot of us didn't expect. We fought for years to get what we ended up with. We've been told to put our open carry (or Constitutional carry) dreams on hold while we fight tooth and nail for each inch we hope to advance. FWIW, I agree that Texas isn't ready for open carry. . . and that's what I'm lamenting. The stereotype of Texas and its conservatism is not as accurate as those of us in the state would like it to be.

The conservative agenda and values have a lot less resistance in OK than it does in TX. I think our conservatives are as conservative as OKs, but they don't have the mass number of moderates, inconsistent conservatives e.g. NIMBY pro-2Aers-in-name-only, and liberals that we contend with at every intersection.

Unless we find a way to ship Houston to Louisiana, Dallas to Arkansas, and Austin to a granite cave 2,000' below central Texas, we're always going to have an uphill battle and grind to get anywhere.

Thanks to those who've done the legwork to get us where we are.

[Heartland Patriot]

I know Chas isn't calling me out, but all I intended to communicate is that OK seems to be a trendsetter now in true conservative laws, not just in 2nd Amendment legislation. They are also a lot darker red in the shaded maps and seems to get significant bills passed with much less panic and fanfare than we can accomplish.

In our last session, we came so close to having campus carry, which many of us here viewed as a priority. It caused an uproar in the media, the urban areas, and the suburbs. We got the parking lot bill through but with some unfortunate limitations that a lot of us didn't expect. We fought for years to get what we ended up with. We've been told to put our open carry (or Constitutional carry) dreams on hold while we fight tooth and nail for each inch we hope to advance. FWIW, I agree that Texas isn't ready for open carry. . . and that's what I'm lamenting. The stereotype of Texas and its conservatism is not as accurate as those of us in the state would like it to be.

The conservative agenda and values have a lot less resistance in OK than it does in TX. I think our conservatives are as conservative as OKs, but they don't have the mass number of moderates, inconsistent conservatives e.g. NIMBY pro-2Aers-in-name-only, and liberals that we contend with at every intersection.

Unless we find a way to ship Houston to Louisiana, Dallas to Arkansas, and Austin to a granite cave 2,000' below central Texas, we're always going to have an uphill battle and grind to get anywhere.

Thanks to those who've done the legwork to get us where we are.

I worry about the future of our firearms rights in this state because of the significant number of "economic refugees" streaming in to our urban areas. In the past, there were people who moved to Texas for many reasons and some of them wanted to get away from "stupid laws". But with this economic upheaval, we are getting a LOT of people in here who liked the laws, anti-firearm laws included, just fine where they were at, they just didn't like not having a job (and can't see the connection between the two). I hate to feel this way but it seems they ate themselves out of house and home where they were and now they've come here to do so, as well. And along with that comes their "need" for social services and higher taxes and anti-firearms and anti-self-defense attitudes...I really don't want to have to move north of the Red River...but if this state turns into "California East", or "Chicagoland South", or "NYC West", then what choice will I have? The state of California has a lot of good people...but if they don't live in the Greater SF Bay Area or the LA Basin, they don't get a say...now, can you imagine our state being COMPLETELY run by Houston, Dallas and San Antonio and the people in the smaller cities and towns not really getting a say? I'd rather be a bit over-concerned than to put my head in the sand and say "It can't happen here".

[fickman]

I know Chas isn't calling me out, but all I intended to communicate is that OK seems to be a trendsetter now in true conservative laws, not just in 2nd Amendment legislation. They are also a lot darker red in the shaded maps and seems to get significant bills passed with much less panic and fanfare than we can accomplish.

In our last session, we came so close to having campus carry, which many of us here viewed as a priority. It caused an uproar in the media, the urban areas, and the suburbs. We got the parking lot bill through but with some unfortunate limitations that a lot of us didn't expect. We fought for years to get what we ended up with. We've been told to put our open carry (or Constitutional carry) dreams on hold while we fight tooth and nail for each inch we hope to advance. FWIW, I agree that Texas isn't ready for open carry. . . and that's what I'm lamenting. The stereotype of Texas and its conservatism is not as accurate as those of us in the state would like it to be.

The conservative agenda and values have a lot less resistance in OK than it does in TX. I think our conservatives are as conservative as OKs, but they don't have the mass number of moderates, inconsistent conservatives e.g. NIMBY pro-2Aers-in-name-only, and liberals that we contend with at every intersection.

Unless we find a way to ship Houston to Louisiana, Dallas to Arkansas, and Austin to a granite cave 2,000' below central Texas, we're always going to have an uphill battle and grind to get anywhere.

Thanks to those who've done the legwork to get us where we are.

I worry about the future of our firearms rights in this state because of the significant number of "economic refugees" streaming in to our urban areas. In the past, there were people who moved to Texas for many reasons and some of them wanted to get away from "stupid laws". But with this economic upheaval, we are getting a LOT of people in here who liked the laws, anti-firearm laws included, just fine where they were at, they just didn't like not having a job (and can't see the connection between the two). I hate to feel this way but it seems they ate themselves out of house and home where they were and now they've come here to do so, as well. And along with that comes their "need" for social services and higher taxes and anti-firearms and anti-self-defense attitudes...I really don't want to have to move north of the Red River...but if this state turns into "California East", or "Chicagoland South", or "NYC West", then what choice will I have? The state of California has a lot of good people...but if they don't live in the Greater SF Bay Area or the LA Basin, they don't get a say...now, can you imagine our state being COMPLETELY run by Houston, Dallas and San Antonio and the people in the smaller cities and towns not really getting a say? I'd rather be a bit over-concerned than to put my head in the sand and say "It can't happen here".

Well said.

[steveincowtown]

Uh oh. According to board legend, signs will be going up everywhere they can be placed. Carry will be restricted for all and the police will get constant MWAG calls and have no idea how to handle them.


....we shall see.

Show us where people here on the Forum said this would happen in other states. The concern is a repeat of what we saw in Texas from 1995 until Sept. 1, 1997 when 30.06 became effective. I don't recall anyone saying what would happen in other states that don't have the recent history experienced here in Texas.

Fair enough, and I concede to your point that although this has been said about TX it has not been said about OK. That being said if the worry is that trying to pass OC will result in increased 30.06 signs, troubles for CHLers, etc. than I would hope that the TSRA and NRA would have the foresight to craft an OC and/or constitutional carry law that protects all the work they have done so far.

The OC law that was presented last session was composed so poorly that the effect it would have had on the average CHL'er (and this is just counting the effects that weren't unforeseen) could have made it impossible to carry on a daily basis.

Part of the issue here in Texas is that tons of people think we have it so great with the 30.06 signs. I would much rather have a law like VA's that says a signs is effective notice, but if your didn't notice the sign the property owner still must ask you to leave, and you must refuse to, before you can be charged with trespassing.

Losing TPC §30.06 would be a huge step backwards! Anyone who was here in 1995 knows of the epidemic of generic no-guns signs that were popping up on businesses. Contrast that with the very few enforceable 30.06 signs.

Chas.

In VA carrying passed a sign is a simple trespass (once notified to leave) and is in no way a firearm violation or a violation which can effect your CHL. There is ZERO inherent risk in carrying passed a sign, other than you might be asked to leave. If you refuse to leave will get a trespassing ticket.

30.06 is great, and I know it was the correct answer at the time. However is it better to have a sign that is so complicated very few post it (which was nice thinking on your part when this was passed ) or a law(like VA has) that has so little bite that it doesn't matter what sign someone may post.

I will take the latter, any day.


I am not an any way being critical of the progress you and the TSRA have made regarding the right to carry. What I am saying is that "all that is necessary for evil to triumph, is for good men to do nothing." If TSRA makes the choice to never act on OC or Constitutional Carry, that is indeed a choice they have the right to make. I would for one rather see them take the helm on this one and make sure it gets done right, and it a way that doesn't destroy what has been done so far.

And it case it doesn't get said enough around here, thanks for all you have done, thanks for this great board, and thanks in advance for what you will do in the future.

[speedsix]

...when I came to Tx in 84 from La, I was astonished that, for all the big, macho image, Texas had some of the most oppressive gun laws I'd seen...no open carry...no concealed carry...no car carry...I carried a short 20 ga. in a 4" pipe for years...after having a handgun in the car since I could drive...it really sucked...look at the progress we've made since then...car carry...concealed carry...more places...parking lot bill...I've not seen so many wins in 2A...and it wasn't Bush and Perry who gave them to us...it was those in the trenches wheeling and dealing and writing and re-writing...and I'm proud and thankful for their work...

...if it's worthwhile, it's usually not going to be easy...OC or constitutional carry...I'd say we're doing great...but from what I've seen on the OC forum over the years...and what I see here when the subjects above come up...we've got a lot to learn about unity of purpose and perseverance and we're not going to see the results we want until the infighting and divisions stop...an uninvolved anti-gun audience might likely say just wait and they'll defeat themselves...it's politics...it boils down to the numbers...we need to work together to stack the numbers and we'll get more of what we want...and less of what we don't...

[OldCurlyWolf]

It's amazing what can happen in a truly conservative state.

True...esp. in a truly conservative state that has a state rifle association that is NOT run by a CHL-Instructor mafia.....


....OK, Texans....are we really as free & RKBA as the rest of the country thinks we are?.....

The ORA is NOT OC friendly. They did not help as an organization. OK2A carried most of the work load.

[pbwalker]

It's amazing what can happen in a truly conservative state.

True...esp. in a truly conservative state that has a state rifle association that is NOT run by a CHL-Instructor mafia.....


....OK, Texans....are we really as free & RKBA as the rest of the country thinks we are?.....

Who do you mean?

Chas.

Still waiting for an answer. I see you Have logged in so please tell who you mean.

Chas.

I'm guessing this was a 'cut and run' attack...not surprising.

[seeker_two]

It's amazing what can happen in a truly conservative state.

True...esp. in a truly conservative state that has a state rifle association that is NOT run by a CHL-Instructor mafia.....


....OK, Texans....are we really as free & RKBA as the rest of the country thinks we are?.....

Who do you mean?

Chas.

Sorry to keep you waiting....life got in the way...

What is TSRA's current stance concerning open carry?.....constitutional carry?....reducing the application fee for applying for a CHL?....moving the application/check process from a DPS Central Office to the regional offices where checks can be done in hours instead of months (like most other shall-issue states)?....

All I've heard from TSRA on this is silence....

In fact, after perusing the Instructors Corner on this site, the major concern for TSRA is the "Utah Problem".....where Texans can bypass this state's CHL and get a permit from a state that requires a lot less instruction and reciprocates with Texas on licensing. And these fine TSRA members are outraged that the legislature allows this "loophole" to occur. (I wonder if they're equally mad that people don't have to have an English degree from a Texas university to practice their First Amendment rights, either....). From my observations, the TSRA is more concerned about protecting the financial interests of state-mandated CHL instructors than in expanding the rights of all Texans.

If I'm wrong about this, please explain to me how I am. Maybe you can even convince me that the dues I used to pay TSRA (which now go to the Second Amendment Foundation....an organization that is getting results) have been well-spent. And what is TSRA's agenda for the upcoming legislative session? And who is TSRA endorsing for the primary & general state elections? And will TSRA represent all Texas gun-owning citizens, or will it mainly look out for those who economically benefit from current state law?

I eagerly await your answers.....

[Charles L. Cotton]

It's amazing what can happen in a truly conservative state.

True...esp. in a truly conservative state that has a state rifle association that is NOT run by a CHL-Instructor mafia.....


....OK, Texans....are we really as free & RKBA as the rest of the country thinks we are?.....

Who do you mean?

Chas.

Sorry to keep you waiting....life got in the way...

What is TSRA's current stance concerning open carry?.....constitutional carry?....reducing the application fee for applying for a CHL?....moving the application/check process from a DPS Central Office to the regional offices where checks can be done in hours instead of months (like most other shall-issue states)?....

All I've heard from TSRA on this is silence....

In fact, after perusing the Instructors Corner on this site, the major concern for TSRA is the "Utah Problem".....where Texans can bypass this state's CHL and get a permit from a state that requires a lot less instruction and reciprocates with Texas on licensing. And these fine TSRA members are outraged that the legislature allows this "loophole" to occur. (I wonder if they're equally mad that people don't have to have an English degree from a Texas university to practice their First Amendment rights, either....). From my observations, the TSRA is more concerned about protecting the financial interests of state-mandated CHL instructors than in expanding the rights of all Texans.

If I'm wrong about this, please explain to me how I am. Maybe you can even convince me that the dues I used to pay TSRA (which now go to the Second Amendment Foundation....an organization that is getting results) have been well-spent. And what is TSRA's agenda for the upcoming legislative session? And who is TSRA endorsing for the primary & general state elections? And will TSRA represent all Texas gun-owning citizens, or will it mainly look out for those who economically benefit from current state law?

I eagerly await your answers.....

You slander TSRA, lie about TSRA's position on changing Texas law, slander TexasCHLforum Members, but you don't have the courage to answer my question directly. Life didn't get in the way of answering; I saw you had logged in but didn't bother to answer.

Chas.