Wow! I new NY City was big but . . .

[stash]

I was reading an article in the local newspaper yesterday regarding security that NY City was taking regarding the Times Square New Years eve celebration. It was indicated in the article that NYPD rookies who graduated about two weeks ago from the academy would be used in this endeavor. The thing that got me was the academy class was 1500. I know New York city is really big, but a class of 1500. I cannot imagine the logistics of running a class that big and you have to figure that the class must have started out larger than 1500. Heck, I would imagine that 1500 is bigger than most departments in this country.

Well any, hope you all have a safe and healthy new year.

Edit: Oops - meant knew it title.

[MoJo]

The last time I saw figures on NYPD they had over 34,500 uniformed officers. That's equivalent to an Army Corps! NYC has over 8,000,000 residents! That works out to 1 cop per every 234 people.

[philip964]

When I was there last (yes I admit I visited New York of my own free will) I noticed that the police were everywhere on foot. In the area I was in, it seemed there was a uniformed office at each street corner. (they were not directing traffic)

I made the assumption, at the time, that this high number of police per person had developed as the minimum requirement to keep the peace. I guess, apparently left to their own New York is not a peaceful place.

When you compare that to Houston, where you have one police office in a car covering a few square miles, we are a much more civilized group of citizens as a whole.

[Heartland Patriot]

Houston PD, doing the math using slightly older numbers from Wikipedia, gives you a ratio of LEO-to-populace of 1 to 407...compare that to the every 234 of NYC. Despite the wonderfully increased LEO-to-populace ratio of NYC vs Houston, I'd much rather go to Houston. Yes, there are areas I would stay out of in Houston, but I'd rather not even go to NYC at all.

[urnoodle]

Yes, I'm a Yankee. Let me just get that out there right off the bat. However, as the saying goes, once a Texan, always a Texan. That's where I place myself. I grew up not far from New York City and traveled there many times as a kid. I don't know what the last census count was but there is approximately 8 million people living in 300 square miles. That doesn't include the additional 10 million residents that live in the burroughs that frequent the city. Add tourists and it is a small space packed with people with different personalities and different levels of aggression. I'm surprise it doesn't take more officers to patrol those streets. I don't think people were intended to live that tightly packed together. Just walking down the street is a challenge. God forbid your moving against the flow, it'll take you an hour to walk 5 blocks. I certainly can't imagine choosing that lifestyle. Houston has nearly double the square miles and probably a 1/3 of the population. I'd hang my hat in Houston too.

[Jumping Frog]

Houston PD, doing the math using slightly older numbers from Wikipedia, gives you a ratio of LEO-to-populace of 1 to 407...compare that to the every 234 of NYC. Despite the wonderfully increased LEO-to-populace ratio of NYC vs Houston, I'd much rather go to Houston. Yes, there are areas I would stay out of in Houston, but I'd rather not even go to NYC at all.

Well, if you want to talk numbers. The 2010 FBI uniform crime statistics lists 620.7 violent crimes per 100,000 people for Houston, while New York has 391.9. Houston's crime rate is 158% of New York's rate (58% higher).

Here they are by category. All are rate per 100,000 people, per http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/cr ... es/table-6" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;:

Code: Select all

Category                             Houston  New York	Houston/New York %
Violent crime                          620.7     391.9          158%
Murder and nonnegligent manslaughter     7.3       4.7          155%
Forcible rape                           25.8      10.1          255%
Robbery                                237.1     164.2          144%
Aggravated assault                     350.5     212.9          165%
Property crime                       3,943.9   1,719.1          229%
Burglary                               974.8     279.3          349%
Larceny-theft                        2,599.3   1,300.6          200%
Motor vehicle theft                    369.8     139.1          266%

[philip964]

Houston's murders were down this year to a level not seen since 1965. I think it was 198. Less than one a day. This would be all murders, crimes of passion, etc. New York had just over 500 murders. So it would seem that we are even not 58% worse.

[Jumping Frog]

The crime statistics listed are for the M.S.A (Metropolitan Statistical Area). 2010 numbers are:

The Houston-Sugar Land-Baytown, TX M.S.A. had a population of 5,978,213 with 435 murders, or 7.3 per 100,000 people.

The New York-Northern New Jersey-Long Island, NY-NJ-PA M.S.A. had a population of 19,042,526 with 899 murders, or 4.7 per 100,000 people.

It is the rate per 100,000 people that matters, not the raw number of crimes. New York M.S.A. is over 3X bigger than Houston.

[JJVP]

The crime statistics listed are for the M.S.A (Metropolitan Statistical Area). 2010 numbers are:

The Houston-Sugar Land-Baytown, TX M.S.A. had a population of 5,978,213 with 435 murders, or 7.3 per 100,000 people.

The New York-Northern New Jersey-Long Island, NY-NJ-PA M.S.A. had a population of 19,042,526 with 899 murders, or 4.7 per 100,000 people.

It is the rate per 100,000 people that matters, not the raw number of crimes. New York M.S.A. is over 3X bigger than Houston.

Yes, but we actually report all crimes unlike NYC.

http://www.villagevoice.com/2010-05-04/ ... -precinct/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.theagitator.com/2010/06/30/n ... ice-chief/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.securityoncampus.org/index.p ... -reporting" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Heartland Patriot]

The crime statistics listed are for the M.S.A (Metropolitan Statistical Area). 2010 numbers are:

The Houston-Sugar Land-Baytown, TX M.S.A. had a population of 5,978,213 with 435 murders, or 7.3 per 100,000 people.

The New York-Northern New Jersey-Long Island, NY-NJ-PA M.S.A. had a population of 19,042,526 with 899 murders, or 4.7 per 100,000 people.

It is the rate per 100,000 people that matters, not the raw number of crimes. New York M.S.A. is over 3X bigger than Houston.

Yes, but we actually report all crimes unlike NYC.

http://www.villagevoice.com/2010-05-04/ ... -precinct/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.theagitator.com/2010/06/30/n ... ice-chief/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.securityoncampus.org/index.p ... -reporting" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Kind of off the subject of crime stats vs cities, but as I was reading the article in The Voice, I was kind of getting creeped-out. I remember, as a USAF aircraft maintenance sergeant, giving roll call briefings to the guys about getting our numbers where they needed to be because the bosses were hammering us about that stuff. In USAF acft. maintenance, they track EVERYTHING, stuff that you couldn't believe they track; for instance, the number of minor errors in logbooks (those that don't effect the meaning or intent of the sign-off after the work is completed for a maintenance problem, usually format related errors). I had to sympathize with those mid-level supervisors, AND the "beat" LEOs who were getting chewed out on a regular basis. I hated giving those kinds of speeches to the guys again and again...but the bosses hammered us without pause about "the numbers" and how it would look to THEIR bosses if those numbers weren't what they wanted...it got to be not about supplying good aircraft to the aircrews, but about making sure our "stats" were right...just one amongst many reasons I hung up the uniform. My question is: what ties NYC police to USAF aircraft maintenance? By all rights, other than wearing uniforms, they really shouldn't have a lot to do with each other...

[rx7fan]

The crime statistics listed are for the M.S.A (Metropolitan Statistical Area). 2010 numbers are:

The Houston-Sugar Land-Baytown, TX M.S.A. had a population of 5,978,213 with 435 murders, or 7.3 per 100,000 people.

The New York-Northern New Jersey-Long Island, NY-NJ-PA M.S.A. had a population of 19,042,526 with 899 murders, or 4.7 per 100,000 people.

It is the rate per 100,000 people that matters, not the raw number of crimes. New York M.S.A. is over 3X bigger than Houston.

Residents of "The City" don't even consider suburban Long Island or Westchester County part of New York City, much less suburbs in Bergen County NJ. Never mind Pennsylvania or Connecticut.

Except when it lowers their crime rate I guess.

[philip964]

Well, if you want to talk numbers. The 2010 FBI uniform crime statistics lists 620.7 violent crimes per 100,000 people for Houston, while New York has 391.9. Houston's crime rate is 158% of New York's rate (58% higher).

Here they are by category. All are rate per 100,000 people, per http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/cr ... es/table-6" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;:


[/code]

For murder from 2010 per 100,000 people from the table above.

Chicago was curiously missing?

New York area was 4.7
New York by itself was 6.4

Los Angeles area was 5.3
Los Angeles byitself was 7.62

Houston area was 7.3
Houston by itself was 11.7

Austin's rate was 3.7

Dallas Fort Worth area was 4.7
Dallas by itself was 11.33

San Antonio area was 4.7
El Paso's rate for murder was .9
Victoria was 6.9

New Orleans was 20.8

Honolulu was 2 (strict gun control)

San Fransisco was 4.0
Oakland was 7.7
Stockton was 16.7 (hmmmm)

Detroit by itself was 34.4
Souix City was 0.0

St Louis was 7.7

Philadelphia was 9.1

But these numbers were for 2010.

New York had 536 murders in 2010 Houston had 269 vs 2011 New York had around 500 and Houston had 198. That would bring down Houston to 8.6 per 100,000 in 2011.

So even with this big reduction in Houston's murder rate we are still much worse off than the rest of Texas and the US. Who knew?

[Heartland Patriot]

Well, if you want to talk numbers. The 2010 FBI uniform crime statistics lists 620.7 violent crimes per 100,000 people for Houston, while New York has 391.9. Houston's crime rate is 158% of New York's rate (58% higher).

Here they are by category. All are rate per 100,000 people, per http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/cr ... es/table-6" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;:


[/code]

For murder from 2010 per 100,000 people from the table above.

Chicago was curiously missing?

New York area was 4.7
New York by itself was 6.4

Los Angeles area was 5.3
Los Angeles byitself was 7.62

Houston area was 7.3
Houston by itself was 11.7

Austin's rate was 3.7

Dallas Fort Worth area was 4.7
Dallas by itself was 11.33

San Antonio area was 4.7
El Paso's rate for murder was .9
Victoria was 6.9

New Orleans was 20.8

Honolulu was 2 (strict gun control)

San Fransisco was 4.0
Oakland was 7.7
Stockton was 16.7 (hmmmm)

Detroit by itself was 34.4
Souix City was 0.0

St Louis was 7.7

Philadelphia was 9.1

But these numbers were for 2010.

New York had 536 murders in 2010 Houston had 269 vs 2011 New York had around 500 and Houston had 198. That would bring down Houston to 8.6 per 100,000 in 2011.

So even with this big reduction in Houston's murder rate we are still much worse off than the rest of Texas and the US. Who knew?

Were those murders, or homicides? There is a difference. Also, I found the article in "The Voice" about intentional under-reporting of crime in NYC to be very enlightening...not surprising, per se, but enlightening.

[tbrown]

Honolulu was 2

http://www.honolulupd.org/download/HPD2 ... tstats.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[philip964]

Honolulu was 2

http://www.honolulupd.org/download/HPD2 ... tstats.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

2 murders per 100,000 people. 19 Murders in Honolulu in 2010. All but 4 solved. Only five murders involved a gun.

Only 4% of property crimes solved.

Your site was much prettier than the FBI's.

On owning a gun in Hawaii: You must register your firearm (including rifles and shotguns) within 72 hours of arrival into Hawaii. Your registered firearm must remain in your home or place of business. Transportation is permitted but only for specific reasons, such as transportation to your new residence, etc. Then it must be unloaded and in a container. Concealed carry is permitted by license only. No information is provided on how to obtain a concealed carry permit, as I think it is impossible. There is even a section on how no law enforcement officer from the mainland is permitted to have their weapon with them for any reason whatsoever and there is no method or avenue for a that to be changed. Assault handguns are prohibited. Only needed two features to be considered an assault handgun, for example, threaded end on the barrel, separate magazine from the grip, among others.

So why does El Paso have such a low murder rate? If your going to kill anyone you take them to Mexico to do it?