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Hi all,

I'm looking for y'alls input on a home defense weapon. I hope you can help me out here. The weapons that I had narrowed it down to are HKsp5k, Sig mpx, CZ evo (either carbine or pistol), Kriss Vector, IWI Tavor x95 (all in 9mm) I don't mind waiting for the stamp as I hope that my edc will suffice (hkp2ksk) in the mean time that I will be waiting for approval. I don't hunt and I like a caliber that will not over penetrate since I have neighbors very near. I'm basically looking for reliability, the longest I will shoot will be 25 yards (size of my backyard). If anyone has any insights on what would be a weapon that they will depend with their lives on will be great. Thanks in advance!

.223/5.56 has less of a chance of over penetration then 9mm.

I vote for a 12 ga with Federal flight control and # 1 buckshot.

Nuts wrote:.223/5.56 has less of a chance of over penetration then 9mm.

I seriously doubt that... There's not nearly enough information in the hypothetical to make that blanket statement. As a rule, all else being equal (which it never is) the bullet with the greater velocity and less front facing surface area, will penetrate more of the same material, than the slower fatter one.

We've all seen the Youtube with the 9mm going through 5 sheets of drywall while the 5.56 doesn't. It's a cool video, but has effectively no application to real life. To get the best answer, you have to consider the material, the angle, the distance, the number of different materials, bullet type (FMJ, HP, JHP, lead, etc.), distance, and so on and so on. Just because somebody got a 55gr FMJ 5.56 round to tumble in a few sheets of drywall doesn't mean it's going to do the same thing in your house.

If I'm faced with a bad guy in my bedroom, and have a choice between my 9mm SIG and my 16" AR-15 carbine, I'm taking the pistol. If the guy's shooting at me from down the street, I'll take my rifle. No way I'm popping off a 5.56 in my house thinking it has less chance of hitting the kids' in their bedroom than a 9mm.

ScottDLS wrote:

Nuts wrote:.223/5.56 has less of a chance of over penetration then 9mm.

I seriously doubt that... There's not nearly enough information in the hypothetical to make that blanket statement. As a rule, all else being equal (which it never is) the bullet with the greater velocity and less front facing surface area, will penetrate more of the same material, than the slower fatter one.

We've all seen the Youtube with the 9mm going through 5 sheets of drywall while the 5.56 doesn't. It's a cool video, but has effectively no application to real life. To get the best answer, you have to consider the material, the angle, the distance, the number of different materials, bullet type (FMJ, HP, JHP, lead, etc.), distance, and so on and so on. Just because somebody got a 55gr FMJ 5.56 round to tumble in a few sheets of drywall doesn't mean it's going to do the same thing in your house.

If I'm faced with a bad guy in my bedroom, and have a choice between my 9mm SIG and my 16" AR-15 carbine, I'm taking the pistol. If the guy's shooting at me from down the street, I'll take my rifle. No way I'm popping off a 5.56 in my house thinking it has less chance of hitting the kids' in their bedroom than a 9mm.

Ah ha! We differ...somewhat. If the BG is already standing in your bedroom and you're in bed, that 9mm SIG is going to be able to get on target a lot faster than a .223 carbine propped up against the nightstand. However....

...the bullet with the greater velocity and less front facing surface area, will penetrate more of the same material, than the slower fatter one.

Not a categorical maxim. Bullet shape makes a huge difference. That's likely the main reason a number of separate, practical tests like this one http://how-i-did-it.org/drywall/ show that some .223 rounds penetrate sheetrock much less than some handgun rounds. A long, light cylindrical object is more likely to experience path deviation and yaw by an obstruction than one that is closer to spherical in shape (e.g., a 9mm round). But you're very right, all is not equal.

Almost every sheetrock test I've ever seen aimed the bullet at a right-angle to the layers of drywall. Purely from a statistical stance, you'd have to think the odds of that happening in a real-world situation would be well to the end of the bell curve. And the greater the angle through the drywall, the more resistance encountered by the bullet. Not to mention wall-studs, furniture, your 90" TV, hanging mirrors and clocks, or whatever else would probably also be in the way in 99 of 100 random ballistic paths from an errant indoor round.

And I'm not advocating that a .223 is the best option for everybody. Beyond "how many pieces of sheetrock will this penetrate" tests, the specific environment has to be considered. To wit, the kids in their bedrooms. A whole boatload of us Boomers have no kids at home; other-room occupancy is not an issue. Some have property larger than the typical urban 55-foot postage-stamp lot size. Some have exterior walls of brick, lessening the odds of any missed shot leaving the dwelling.

I think as many conditions as possible have to be considered. For me, I always have my EDC handgun, a .45 ACP, handy, but my go-to choice for home defense is a .223 AR. In the event of an armed intruder, if I did have kids in the house, I'd frankly be more worried about his gunfire than mine; I'd want him down as quickly as possible. And in the unlikely event of a home invasion--where I may very well be facing multiple attackers entering from two different points--I'd rather have an AR with a 40-round PMAG and a red-dot in hand than my pistol.

What I rely upon is an old .38spl revolver. Because it is an old friend. I have fired thousands of rounds through it, no safety to fumble with.

WTR wrote:I vote for a 12 ga with Federal flight control and # 1 buckshot.

A short but legal shotgun is hard to beat as a defensive weapon.

Skiprr wrote: Almost every sheetrock test I've ever seen aimed the bullet at a right-angle to the layers of drywall. Purely from a statistical stance, you'd have to think the odds of that happening in a real-world situation would be well to the end of the bell curve. And the greater the angle through the drywall, the more resistance encountered by the bullet. Not to mention wall-studs, furniture, your 90" TV, hanging mirrors and clocks, or whatever else would probably also be in the way in 99 of 100 random ballistic paths from an errant indoor round.

Skiprr,

Can I come chill at your place for the Super Bowl?

Sincerely,
TexasJohnBoy



/tangent

My pick is my 9mm pistol loaded up with 17rounds, mainly because of ease. I live on an acre and have no kids, so I'm not too terribly worried about a round going too far...

WTR wrote:I vote for a 12 ga with Federal flight control and # 1 buckshot.

That's what I have. Mossberg 500, 18.5 inch barrel with a light mounted on it. My whole family is proficient with it.( I don't disagree with Mrs Jusme anymore )
At inside house distance I can't think of anything more devastating. JMHO

Jusme wrote:

WTR wrote:I vote for a 12 ga with Federal flight control and # 1 buckshot.

That's what I have. Mossberg 500, 18.5 inch barrel with a light mounted on it. My whole family is proficient with it.( I don't disagree with Mrs Jusme anymore )
At inside house distance I can't think of anything more devastating. JMHO

That's what I keep loaded in my Mossberg 930 SPX as well. 15 of those little 40.5 grain lead balls do a lot of damage.

While it's not likely, if I fired all 8 rounds that would be 120 of them.

My backup long gun is my AR-15 loaded with American Eagle 50gr tipped varmint ammo. The chance of a pass-through is almost nil and a miss should start breaking up on the first wall.

Mrs on the 12 and me on the 9.

Jusme wrote:

WTR wrote:I vote for a 12 ga with Federal flight control and # 1 buckshot.

That's what I have. Mossberg 500, 18.5 inch barrel with a light mounted on it. My whole family is proficient with it.( I don't disagree with Mrs Jusme anymore )
At inside house distance I can't think of anything more devastating. JMHO

This is my choice as well. For back up we have several handguns strategically hidden around the house as well as bedside.

If ever needed the one I could get to 1st, could care less in than instance of walls or much else in that moment.

TexasJohnBoy wrote:Skiprr,

Can I come chill at your place for the Super Bowl?

Sincerely,
TexasJohnBoy

Unfortunately, we'll be at NRG Stadium for Super Bowl LI. My Texans ain't gonna make it to the game, buy maybe we might see the 'Boys there.

We'll be having a combo Valentine's Day and Super Bowl replay party the following Sunday, though, if you want to come by. We'll be watching in the theater room that has a Panasonic 152-inch 4K TV and a wacky sound system by the German company Dynamikks (http://www.dynamikks.de/Ultima.html). But the party will spill out to the great room (where the 90-inch OLED 4K TV lives) and the backyard kitchen/banquet area; two 60-inch 4K TVs are mounted out there, too, so folks can move around at will and not miss any of the action. As of now, we're expecting Chef Greg Gatlin of Gatlin's BBQ and some of his staff to be at the helm in the kitchen; they'll be bringing the low-and-slow smoked meats with them. Oh, and Kelsey Lamb of the Saint Arnold Brewing Company will be there and providing a bunch of different Saint Arnold's signature suds. We're expecting 60 or 70 people; should be a good time.

[Disclaimer: Some or all of the previous statements are blatantly false. I take no responsibility for veracity or lack thereof. Ahem; cough cough.]

I can't fault the choice of a shotgun for home defense. Until I eventually changed my mind, my trusty Remmy 870 Tactical was my preferred choice. It's in the safe with a fully charged tube along with a Mossberg, as well.

The two factors that changed my mind was firearm weight (and balance) and capacity. The tube, when fully charged, puts some significant weight toward the barrel, making it less mobile inside the house than I liked. I have a four-round side saddle on it where I store slugs for swap-in as needed: a feature I really like to have, but it also adds weight. And capacity is what it is.

And what I didn't mention before is that no long gun is as efficient as a handgun when needing to clear a residential structure with typically tight hallways and rooms branched off at right angles. Again, I think it's about one's individual situation. Since you can't sleep in your carry kit with holster and spare mags, in your pajamas at oh-dark-thirty you're probably gonna be limited to whichever firearm you choose to grab. If other bedrooms in the house are occupied and there's a good chance you'd have to clear rooms on your way there, the mobility of a handgun is hard to beat, and probably what you want, IMHO.

In my case, our master bedroom is downstairs and the gun safe in the walk-in closet adjoining the bathroom; three tight turns to get to that master closet after you're in the bedroom--easily defended--and the safe and ammo cans line the only two walls anyone could realistically try to shoot through. No one else in the house; no one sleeping upstairs. Our drill is--in the event of the home alarm, breaking glass, or crashing doors--she is in the master closet "safe room," opening the gun safe, arming herself, calling 911, and holding the fort. I have my AR in hand and may or may not leave the master bedroom, as circumstances dictate.

Skiprr wrote:
And what I didn't mention before is that no long gun is as efficient as a handgun when needing to clear a residential structure with typically tight hallways and rooms branched off at right angles. Again, I think it's about one's individual situation. Since you can't sleep in your carry kit with holster and spare mags, in your pajamas at oh-dark-thirty you're probably gonna be limited to whichever firearm you choose to grab. If other bedrooms in the house are occupied and there's a good chance you'd have to clear rooms on your way there, the mobility of a handgun is hard to beat, and probably what you want, IMHO.

In my case, our master bedroom is downstairs and the gun safe in the walk-in closet adjoining the bathroom; three tight turns to get to that master closet after you're in the bedroom--easily defended--and the safe and ammo cans line the only two walls anyone could realistically try to shoot through. No one else in the house; no one sleeping upstairs. Our drill is--in the event of the home alarm, breaking glass, or crashing doors--she is in the master closet "safe room," opening the gun safe, arming herself, calling 911, and holding the fort. I have my AR in hand and may or may not leave the master bedroom, as circumstances dictate.

Unless you have been trained and practice building clearing techniques, clearing your home is a bad idea, especially alone. I realize that sometimes you may have to move to another room to protect children, but if you can, hole up, call the police, and point that hallway howitzer, aka shotgun, at the door to the bedroom.