TexasCHLforum.com

Took a Field Hunter Class last weekend and found what I think may be a gap in my rifle inventory. I have a couple of ARs in different configurations and a Long Range Rifle (6.5 Creedmoor in a Savage Long Range Precision). The Long Range Rifle is extremely accurate but HEAVY. I had planned to use it for the class but the Leupold Mark 4 scope on it broke on the 4th shot of the class (probably a blessing). So, I went to my back up gun. That was an AR with an 18 inch barrel. It shot extremely well out to 600 yards with the IMI 262 Mod1 ammo. As part of the class, we had to put on our ruck and rifle and hike a 2 mile course engaging targets out to 460 yards each afternoon of the 2 day class. I don't know that I could have lugged that heavy 6.5 bolt gun through that hike and have gotten it into some of the positions that we had to be in in the deep woods. The AR worked very well with 77 grain bullets and was easier to carry (I am 60 and out of shape).

There were guys at the class with short barreled 308 bolt guns. When I hit the steel plates with the AR (77 grain bullets), I would hear a little ping. When they hit the steel plates, the plates would jump (a bunch) before we would hear the report (lots more punch). I am thinking I need something between the AR and the Long Range Rifle that is not to heavy to lug around. One guy had the new Savage Model 11 Scout rifle, others had variations on the short barreled Remington Rifles. I wish that I had looked more closely at the Savage when I was there but my mind was on trying to get everything I could out of the lessons at the class.

Questions for you folks. Do any of you have rifles like this? Thoughts on filling the gap I mentioned? Experience with these short barreled rifles? Is there any realistic advantage of the 308 over the 77 grain 5.56 other than making a steel plate jump? What is your experience with accuracy with these rifles? Any comments on things I am missing? I would probably not set it up as a scout. If I get one, I would most likely put a 2.5 X 10 Vortex Viper on it. That is what is on the 18 in barrel AR that was my back up gun at the class and it worked extremely well even on the "snap" shots we had to take at 7 yards.

FWIW, the IMI 262 Mod1 ammo that I was using in the AR shot incredibly well. It regularly produces groups well under one MOA with a muzzle velocity of 2790 FPS out of my 18 inch barrel. I don't know how they load ammo so accurate or fast. I have been trying to produce a reload like that ammo with no luck to date. I may just give up on the reloads and shoot the IMI ammo going forward out of my 18 inch barrel AR. If any of you have found the secret on reproducing an accurate 262 Mod 1 load, I would like to hear about it.

Thanks!

I have a Ruger American Rifle (standard version) and it will shoot about 3/4" groups at 100 yards with Federal GMM 168gr, if I do my part. They also have a compact version.

Don't let the low price put you off. These rifles are surprisingly accurate. There are plenty of reviews on the web that will confirm that.

I have a Ruger Gunsite Scout in .308. It has a 16" 1:10 barrel and weighs 7 lbs - light enough. I like the advantage of detachable box magazines.

And by the way, I know what you mean about the steel plates. A 5.56 makes a little "tink!" while a .308 makes a "CLANG!!"

I just located a SMITH AND Wesson M&P AR10 today that was slightly used. Traded in a couple of handguns that I hadn't shot in a while and think I ended up with a good deal. These are supposed to be lighter than most 308s so it may have a little more recoil. It comes with an 18" barrel which is supposed to make it versatile. I need to get an optic for it and then head to the range. I was suprised that I found a used one sitting in a gun shop. I have always wanted to add a AR10 to my collection.

You might want to look at Smith and Wesson M&P AR10 if you need something a little lighter. They also make 25 Round PMAGS.

Get a Tikka T3SS lite in 308 if this is the caliber you want. Super accurate and very light. T3x are coming out this year too.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewIt ... =557318957

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewIt ... =557310819

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewIt ... =556559448

on my next-to-buy long-gun list is a Ruger Precision Rifle in .308. It may or may not fit the bill for what you've described, but it has a ton of great features at a great price while not sacrificing anything in the accuracy department.

The Creedmoor is tempting, but I've pretty much standardized on .223 and .308 in rifle calibers. I have a POF .308 configured mainly as a CQB rifle (EOTech, swing-in magnifier, and flip-up irons). It is more than capable of reaching better distances if I were to put good glass on it, but that's what I want the Ruger for. And a huge plus is that the Ruger can use the same Magpul PMAGs that I use with the POF.

In .308, the Ruger has a 20" barrel and an overall length of 38.25" to 41.75" (adjustable buttstock for length-of-pull), but the stock is foldable so you can carry/store it at an overall length of 30.6". It's 9.7 lbs. without an optic. Not nearly as light as the Gunsite Scout, but still pretty manageable for something with such good long-range potential.

Beiruty,

Thank you for mentioning the Tikka. I looked at their web site and the new T3x Compact Tactical Rifle would seem to be exactly what I am looking for (if it is not too expensive). The instructor for the class also mentioned Tikka rifles as an excellent choice. I will start the search for one of these (with some spare magazines).

I was hoping that Savage would have something that would fit the bill as the magazines for my 6.5 Long Range Rifle could be used for a 308. I am still hoping to hear more about their Scout rifle. The reviews are thin on the internet.

Right2Carry,

I have thought about an AR10. Several folks had them (high end ones) at this class and the Long Range Hunter Class I took a couple of years ago. Reliability issues I saw at both classes would have me concerned and they are heavier than a bolt gun. Not saying no to them yet but am leaning toward a bolt gun at this time.

Skiprr,

I have heard great things about the new Ruger rifle you mention. I understand your desire to standardize. I bought the 6.5 Creedmoor a few years back when I wanted to get a rifle that will shoot to 1000 yards so that I could learn a little about long range shooting. Now, I am understanding the desire to standardize on more common calibers. I did not see a need for a small 308 bolt gun until I took this class. Won't get rid of my 6.5 Creedmoor but am thinking hard about adding the 308 to the mix. The Ruger rifle you mention is a little heavier than what I am wanting for this application. Watching others tote similar rifles around on that 2 mile course with some of the places we had to go got my attention.

I was hoping that Savage would have something that would fit the bill as the magazines for my 6.5 Long Range Rifle could be used for a 308. I am still hoping to hear more about their Scout rifle. The reviews are thin on the internet.

I though AndyC had favorable comments concerning the Savage Scout rifle.

LTUME1978 wrote:Skiprr,

I have heard great things about the new Ruger rifle you mention. I understand your desire to standardize. I bought the 6.5 Creedmoor a few years back when I wanted to get a rifle that will shoot to 1000 yards so that I could learn a little about long range shooting. Now, I am understanding the desire to standardize on more common calibers. I did not see a need for a small 308 bolt gun until I took this class. Won't get rid of my 6.5 Creedmoor but am thinking hard about adding the 308 to the mix. The Ruger rifle you mention is a little heavier than what I am wanting for this application. Watching others tote similar rifles around on that 2 mile course with some of the places we had to go got my attention.

I don't know if it does or not, but if your 6.5 uses AI pattern mags, then you can share mags with a Ruger Gunsite Scout. I am converting my Remington 700 precision rifle to a DBM using AI pattern mags, and then I can share magazines between the R700 and the RGS.

Both the Remington 700 SPS Tactical and the S&W MP10 weigh under 8 lbs. I have both and actually enjoy shooting The AR 10 more than the bolt gun.

I put around 100 rounds of XM118 thru the AR today, out to 500 yds. As far as reliability, I have had ZERO issues over the 2 years I have owned it, and in fact I hardly ever even bother to clean it.

I have an AR 15 that does well at 500, just can't hear the hits and so you have to get up and go look - it's very inconvenient

Bitter Clinger wrote:Both the Remington 700 SBS Tactical and the S&W. MP10 weigh under 8 lbs. I have both and actually enjoy shooting The AR 10 more than the bolt gun.

I put around 100 rounds of XM118 thru the AR today, out to 500 yds. As far as reliability, I have had ZERO issues over the 2 years I have owned it, and in fact I hardly ever clean it.

I have an AR 15 that does well at 500, just can't hear the hits and so you have to get up and go look - it's very inconvenient

Where did you shoot today?

Beiruty wrote:

Bitter Clinger wrote:Both the Remington 700 SBS Tactical and the S&W. MP10 weigh under 8 lbs. I have both and actually enjoy shooting The AR 10 more than the bolt gun.

I put around 100 rounds of XM118 thru the AR today, out to 500 yds. As far as reliability, I have had ZERO issues over the 2 years I have owned it, and in fact I hardly ever clean it.

I have an AR 15 that does well at 500, just can't hear the hits and so you have to get up and go look - it's very inconvenient

Where did you shoot today?

Friend took me to ETTS. I have brass for you

Top Gun appears to be out of business?

This is why I asked. Not sure what happened to TopGun range. It was nice and the owner was in control and improving the facility and they had the six shooters there too. It is a mystery.

Pawpaw wrote:I have a Ruger American Rifle (standard version) and it will shoot about 3/4" groups at 100 yards with Federal GMM 168gr, if I do my part. They also have a compact version.

Don't let the low price put you off. These rifles are surprisingly accurate. There are plenty of reviews on the web that will confirm that.

I have a Ruger American predator, great gun. My only complaint would be the safety location.
I recently sold a Howa 1500 short action.243 which made a great little deer rifle. I also wanted to consolidate calibers.
I would like another Howa but in .308 this time