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Its seems like a slow day on the forums. Hope everyone is having fun. Here is the latest in a series of poor financial decisions on my part:

That may end up being a great investment after all.

Man, I want one. They were $2k at the Dallas gun show this weekend.

There are a few on TFT for 1150. I decided to go with the Utas UTS15. Still have a few more weeks before it comes in. :(
Brian

Show off! ;) nice shotty!

i really want basically all the keltec combat guns..

the ksg,rfb,su-16,pmr-30,and sub2000

why hasnt keltec expanded to meet demand. Hopefully in the next 5 years they will be able to keep up. I think everyone would buy a ksg if they could get their street price back to MSRP.

carrydave wrote:i really want basically all the keltec combat guns..

the ksg,rfb,su-16,pmr-30,and sub2000

why hasnt keltec expanded to meet demand. Hopefully in the next 5 years they will be able to keep up. I think everyone would buy a ksg if they could get their street price back to MSRP.

Maybe so, although it wouldn't include me. I'd rather have a Mk19 grenade launcher. OTH, I'd probably buy an RFB if they were priced near the lower end of AR10 pricing—which is where they belong. It's an innovative design, but I base the idea that they ought to be priced like a low-end AR10 on the quality of their pistols, and where their pistols fit in the overall scheme of pistol pricing. MSFP is $1,800.00, but they have never been available for that price in the real world. The single example that I handled one time at a gun show just didn't seem like $1,800.00 worth of gun to me, and it was used and the guy wanted $2,500.00 for it.......back when AR10 carbines could be found NIB for $1,000 and even less pretty easily.

Here is what I think will eventually happen:
Kel-Tec will never manufacture the RFB in quantity large enough to bring the street price down to the MSRP, let alone down to their actual value compared to other guns in their market niche—.308 caliber carbines. I put them in that niche because "bullpup carbines in .308" is basically a nonexistent market. The RFB is not manufactured in great enough quantities to create their own market niche, and that means that they compete for buyers' money in the same market niche as other carbine length semiautomatic .308 rifles........which means AR10s and the short-barreled M1As, both of which can be purchased for less than the going rate for an RFB, and which have their own positive virtues.

Consequently, some other enterprising company with greater manufacturing capability will rip off the design.....the way that Ruger ripped off the P3AT and PF9 designs for their LCP and LC9 pistols. Ruger took its time getting into the gas piston AR15 market, but now they are in. I think that Ruger or some other company will rip off the RFB, change a couple of minor cosmetic features, and sell it under their own brand name. When that happens, the RFB will find its natural market value. It hasn't yet.

I suspect that the KSG is in the same boat, but that's just me. YMMV.

As shotguns go, they aren't very good, actually. They don't impress me at all. Cool looking, yes.

My Bullpup Saiga 12.



http://i695.photobucket.com/albums/vv31 ... 816770.jpg

Oh, that's a door handle. I thought you had a rear view mirror mounted on that thing.

I'm interested in both the KSG and the UTAS. What are the key differences?

LittleGun wrote:I'm interested in both the KSG and the UTAS. What are the key differences?

Let me google that for ya :)

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OldCannon wrote:As shotguns go, they aren't very good, actually. They don't impress me at all. Cool looking, yes.

The only thing the KSG has going for it is incredibly short OAL. some one with a saiga 12 with 2x 8 round magazines could probably put as much lead down range. give him a 3rd mag and competition over. pump action is reliable as long as you don't short shuck it in either direction.

psijac wrote:

OldCannon wrote:As shotguns go, they aren't very good, actually. They don't impress me at all. Cool looking, yes.

The only thing the KSG has going for it is incredibly short OAL. some one with a saiga 12 with 2x 8 round magazines could probably put as much lead down range. give him a 3rd mag and competition over. pump action is reliable as long as you don't short shuck it in either direction.

I found an error in your sentence, so you might want to correct it: It assumes a Saiga will reliably feed.

Beiruty wrote:My Bullpup Saiga 12.

[ Image ]

http://i695.photobucket.com/albums/vv31 ... 816770.jpg

It seems like that the legs on that thing would be a lot to carry around. Can't you just shoulder fire the thing?