mossberg 500 vs remmington 870

[speepdaedeesi]

im looking for a good home protection shotgun... looking at the mossberg 500 vs. the remington 870

i know both are proven, both are around the same price, and both have rich aftermarket support... but lets hear why i should get which one from those of you guys that know.


im leaning towards the remmington just because i think it might have more of an aftermarket support out there.

also, lets talk pistol grip. i like a pistol grip, and dont want a stock... but im thinking about comprimising and getting a top-folding stock. i want the accuracy of having the stock but the ability to fold it up. any reason why thats not good?

thanks.

[karder]

I have both of these shotguns and from my perspective they are both very good. You will not make a mistake either way, so I would go with whatever is the best deal. If I were going to split hairs, I feel like the remington is a little higher quality. This is not to say that I have had any problems with the Mossberg whatsoever, I am just saying that the overall fit and finish seem to be better on the remington, so if all things were equal, I would go with the 870. Don't worry about accessories. Both guns can be fitted with about anything you can dream of.
As far as a pistol grip goes, unless you have a specific reason for needing a gun that short, (storage on a plane, boat, or something like that) I would definitely stay away from that. A 12 gauge with a pistol grip kicks like a mule and is no fun to shoot. I have a winchester defender that came with a pistol grip and while it was very easy to store, I just did not feel like it was a very good weapon. Shotguns are meant to be aimed and pistol grips are a fire from the waste weapon. I ended taking the pistol grip off and adding a 6 position collapsable stock and a couple of shell holders. I now have a great shotgun, that is still short, but can be fired from the shoulder. I feel that it is a much more capable defense weapon now.
Just my two cents!

[fickman]

I posted this in another thread on this same topic:

I bought a parkerized 12 gauge 20" Mossberg Persuader that holds 7+1 with a pistol grip and heat shield for a good price at a gun show. (I already have a 12 gauge Remington 870 Express 28" for clay and hunting.)

I added the 6-position telescoping stock with Knoxx recoil suppression technology that I got from Cabela's for $100 or so. With the recoil suppression, your wife should be comfortable shooting a 12 gauge.

I was VERY tempted by the 18.5" 590 next to it, but it only held 5+1 and I wanted the additional capacity. The 590 is a metal trigger guard and a metal safety switch away from being the full-military spec version. It's hard core. It's barrel exterior is about 3x the thickness of the 500. You could use it to beat 1,000 men to death without firing a shot and not damage it. I finally decided that if I run out of ammo during a home invasion and damage my shotgun while beating the intruders with it, I've earned the right to buy a new one. Because of this, I don't need the extra girth of the 590 (which was still $150 more).

I prefer the action of the 500 when compared to the Remington 870 Express. The Express is rough and unrefined - and I've noticed is difficult for smaller females or younger shooters to pump smoothly. Also, the 500 has an open loading port which would make reloading under stress easier. Lastly, I prefer the safety location on the Mossberg and feel more confident of its position by feel or visual inspection. (The location is a little inconvenient with the telescoping stock + pistol grip because you have to move your thumb around the stock to reach it. Still, I feel more comfortable with it.) Also, the action release on the Mossberg can be reached without moving your hand off of its shooting position, unlike the Remington.

Remington makes higher end 870s in a couple of different lines which have much more refined parts and smoother action. I'm comparing the < $400 models in this post. . . the Express is what you would normally see compared with the normal 500.

Here's the link to that thread so you can see other responses: http://texaschlforum.com/viewtopic.php? ... 85&start=0

[A-R]

Agree with Andy. If you're going to use a pistol grip or pistol grip + stock go with Remington because of the trigger guard safety. I use a standard stock on my Mossberg and the tang-mounted safety was one of the reasons I went with Mossberg over Remington (easier to manipulate while holding gun in shooting position with a standard stock). I also feel the placement of the pump release switch on a Mossberg is better.

As far as aftermarket, you can't get almost all the same add-ons. The one benefit Remington has as relates to add ons is the design of the front of its mag tube where the barrel nut attaches. Unscrew the nut, and the mag tube is open at top - allowing you to add a mag extension. With a Mossberg, the nut screws into the mag tube, which is basically "closed" at top except for the small bolt hole. Therefore you can't add an "extension" to a Mossberg mag tube. There is however an 8-round mag tube available for Mossberg, which uses a 20-inch Mossy barrel (Brownels sells the set new for $150). But this would then be a stand-alone gun - that barrel and mag tube must go together. If you want a long barrel later (hunting, skeet shooting) you'll need to also change back to the 5-shot mag tube. Of course, taking apart a Mossberg is super easy, so this switch isn't all that difficult. Remington probably is too, but I've never owned one.

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[aaangel]

A 12 gauge with a pistol grip kicks like a mule and is no fun to shoot.

i put this one on my 500 and it's a dream to shoot!
http://www.blackhawk.com/product/Breach ... 54,165.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[speepdaedeesi]

thanks for all the info guys.

skeet shooting is something i plan on doing so interchangable barrel is a plus

speaking of skeet would i get laughed off the skeet range for showing up with a top folder 870 or 500 with to shoot with? (ive never shot skeet before but its something id like to get in to when i ETS in oct.)

[MoJo]

I have a standard Mossberg 500 with the 8 round tube and 20" barrel I have no desire for a pistol grip or a folding/telescoping stock. A shotgun is what it is, a SHOLDER fired weapon the recoil generated by even reduced recoil shells is difficult enough to manage with a fixed stock I wouldn't want to put myself at a disadvantage with a flimsy "tacti cool" looking stock. The 590 Mossbergs issued by the military all have fixed stocks. If you must Mall Ninja up your shotgun then get an 870 so you can reach the safety.

[jeeperbryan]

I have to agree with everyone else. The pistol grip looks cool but is not practical. You'll end up putting the shotgun in the corner and never shooting it because it's not fun to shoot. If you're gng strictly for close quarters, home defense then I guess the pistol grip is hard to beat. But if you want to use the gun for anything else AND want to have any accuracy, go with stock.

[speepdaedeesi]

thanks for all the info.

topfolding stock it is... i still get the cool factor, but keep the recoil dampning and aiming ability.

[jeeperbryan]

thanks for all the info.

topfolding stock it is... i still get the cool factor, but keep the recoil dampning and aiming ability.

If you go topfolding stock, make sure you get a saddle for it. Super cool and gives you a few extra shells. Shotshells are hard to carry and heavy, make sure to get yourself a bandolier.

[Skiprr]

"Cool factor?" Please say it ain't so. Please say you're choosing a firearm by purpose, not looks.

First, as others have mentioned, skeet-shooting shotguns and defensive shotguns are two different animals. You can get an 870 with interchangeable barrels, for example, but it's about more than barrel length. It always strikes me as odd that folks familiar with umpteen types of handguns, from tiny mouse guns to G34s, will think that any shotgun is a shotgun.

Defensive shotguns typically are cylinder bore, have an 18-inch barrel, and are designed to fire every time. Kinda like an AK, accuracy and tight tolerances are less important than reliability. You will never see a competitive skeet shooter using a basic Mossy 500 or Remy 870.

That doesn't mean you can't shoot a Mossberg 500 or Remington 870 for clays, skeet, or hunting. Just that they aren't the best tools for the job.

Second, a pistol-grip shotgun is pretty much pointless. It's a solution in search of a need. Alas, I'm afraid Hollywood has driven this and, like most of what we see about guns from Hollywood, it's wrong.

You can't hold or present a shotgun any more quickly or closer to your body with a pistol grip than you can with a combat stock (my preference is the Knoxx--now Blackhawk--stock). Held in CQB ready position--the same way you would an AR15--a defensive shotgun with a stock is no more susceptible to grasp or interference than is a pistol-grip shotgun. Think about it: the relative positioning of the strong-hand grip at the trigger is essentially identical, ergo where the barrel extends from the body is the same. But having a stock allows you to tuck the stock under your strong-side arm for compressed fire or retention, in a far more stable position than pistol-grip only.

Also, in CQB, a stock gives you an impact device/weapon. A pistol-grip only or folding stock removes or lessens that force multiplier.

Third, it's a myth that you don't need to aim a shotgun. The "scattergun" mythos dates back to the 19th century, when the barrel was trumpet-shaped and about 12 inches long, and the charge was miscellaneous junk packed in from the muzzle.

From an 18-inch cylinder bore, a 00-buckshot pattern will expand only slightly at seven yards. A bit more at 10 yards. I have some expansion numbers if you want them.

Dressing-up a shotgun to enable "cool factor" is a mistake. When you may most need it, that cool, top-foldable, and very cheap stock is most likely to fail.

Just, as always, IMHO.

[gigag04]

Also not sure why anyone would want a pump shotgun these days for home defense. They average person is NOT going to train regularly with it in high stress situations...which may very well lead to bang...click...click...click.

We have Benelli autos that we can choose if we want it over a patrol rifle and they are fine guns and can fire as fast as you can pull the trigger. They are also $1200 but they do the job well.

If I were to buy a shotgun tommorow, I'd buy a plain jane wood stock Rem 1170 12 guage. It wouldn't impress my friends, but thats what I have ARs and 1911s for.

(My AR is actually a tool for work...but who cares about details).

[jeeperbryan]

You will never see a competitive skeet shooter using a basic Mossy 500 or Remy 870.

That doesn't mean you can't shoot a Mossberg 500 or Remington 870 for clays, skeet, or hunting. Just that they aren't the best tools for the job.

The reason you don't see skeet, trap, sporting clay shooters using a Mossberg or Remington is because it is not cool to do so. If you're a good, you can hit clays with anything that has a stock. I've seen guys with 870s shoot pretty good and guys with Perazzis that can't hit the side of a barn. But nobody oohs and ahhs at the 870.