Need help on AR-15 uppers

[stsai465]

I'm building my first AR-15 and would like a little advice. I got a fully-assembled lower at last week's Ft Worth show (Stag Arms), and now need to get an upper to match it. I pulled up Model1sales website to get a look at options and I'm a little overwhelmed by the options. For starters, I'm going w/ a 16" barrel. From there, paring it down as much as I can, I have the following:

Barrel: What does a stainless steel barrel buy you over a chrome-moly one (other than looking spiffy)? For $50 more, I'd hope there's more to it.

On the rear sight/upper, I'm kind of leaning against the A2 handle, purely for aesthetics, but would eventually like to mount an optic on this rifle, so I'm not sure if not having that handle helps/hurts. For now, I'll probably put some kind of rear iron sight. Not sure of M1 vs YHM vs GG&G though.

On the handguard, does the specific type (ie, M4 vs C.A.R vs YHM) really matter, other than looks? The one that stuck out for me visually was an aluminum free-float, and I was told free-float might be a shade more accurate.

Any other info/advice appreciated.

[dicion]

I'm currently in the market for an upper as well, I'll let you know what I have found.

Barrel: What does a stainless steel barrel buy you over a chrome-moly one (other than looking spiffy)? For $50 more, I'd hope there's more to it.

I also have no idea here as well. Trying to get some sort of recommendation, but all sources I've read have said that a chromed lined was the way to go

On the handguard, does the specific type (ie, M4 vs C.A.R vs YHM) really matter, other than looks? The one that stuck out for me visually was an aluminum free-float, and I was told free-float might be a shade more accurate.

Free floating is definately the way to go, basically it means that it does not touch the barrel, so when you hold it by the guard, or it sits on a bipod, or rest or anything, it won't put vertical pressure on the barrel, possibly affecting accuracy.

As far as which upper to go with, There's a decision whether to go DI or Piston operated as well.

Piston systems are $$$ and from what I have read, while they do keep the chamber cleaner, some are currently less reliable then DI at this time due to more moving parts = more complexity, plus it's relatively new (compared to DI which has been in use for decades). Also, while the chamber is kept cleaner, you still have to clean the Piston system occasionally, so it just 'moves' the location of the dirt. It does have a 'neat factor' tough.

Personally, I will most likely be getting a LMT Upper for mine. Probably a 14.5". LMT uppers are considered in the 'top tier' quality, with other ones such as Noveske, and others.

You can see this thread for more DI vs Piston discussion: http://www.texasshooting.com/TexasCHL_F ... 87&t=24687" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[KC5AV]

Unless you find a private sale, be prepared to wait. I ordered an upper from model1sales on December 9. When I spoke to them last week, they said they were processing orders from December 2, and that I should see mine shipped 'in about 2 weeks'.

[TDDude]

I'm building my first AR-15 and would like a little advice. I got a fully-assembled lower at last week's Ft Worth show (Stag Arms), and now need to get an upper to match it. I pulled up Model1sales website to get a look at options and I'm a little overwhelmed by the options. For starters, I'm going w/ a 16" barrel. From there, paring it down as much as I can, I have the following:

Barrel: What does a stainless steel barrel buy you over a chrome-moly one (other than looking spiffy)? For $50 more, I'd hope there's more to it.

Well, I just finished my first build last night so that of course makes me the supreme expert.

Stainless steel is just that, stainless. Besides looking kinda cool it resists rust. My stainless pistols are a touch lighter in weight than the blued versions of the same model but I don’t know if the same is true of the AR. Make sure the barrel is chromed. Gunmakers have been chroming the interior of the barrel for decades. My Inland M-1 carbine has a chromed barrel and it’s as shiny as it can be and is almost 70 years old.

I would suggest the 1:9 twist as it's compatible with a wider variety of bullet weights.

On the rear sight/upper, I'm kind of leaning against the A2 handle, purely for aesthetics, but would eventually like to mount an optic on this rifle, so I'm not sure if not having that handle helps/hurts. For now, I'll probably put some kind of rear iron sight. Not sure of M1 vs YHM vs GG&G though.

If you can, I would suggest getting the flat top. You can always get a handle. Mounting optics on top of an A-2 handle may require a cheek piece on the stock which would help line up your face up to the optic.
I have a flat top with a flip up sight. I also have an Aimpoint optic and it works very will with the flip up rear sight. I couldn’t have that type of setup with the A-2 handle.

On the handguard, does the specific type (ie, M4 vs C.A.R vs YHM) really matter, other than looks? The one that stuck out for me visually was an aluminum free-float, and I was told free-float might be a shade more accurate.

The free float is more accurate because any pressure on the barrel will affect things. BUT, how accurate do you need to be? You said you are going with a 16” barrel. In that case, I would go with a standard foregrip. If you had a bull barrel and were going to be doing long-range varmint hunting, then free float is a must. In your case, I don’t see how the free floater would justify the cost. If you’re just going to be plinking or self defense, the accuracy with a standard grip will be fine. I know that my Colt A-2 can drive nails at 50 yards with iron sights and beyond that, my eyes can’t see good enough for the difference to matter.

I got a complete lower parts kit and some tools from M&A and only waited a week. You might try them.

[stsai465]

The last 2 gun shows I attended (Dallas Market Hall, Ft Worth), Model1 was there with a whole bunch of uppers, though I suppose they weren't built to order like a web order would be, and I think their prices were higher too.

[Purplehood]

Buy an upper with the removable handle.

[WarHawk-AVG]

The last 2 gun shows I attended (Dallas Market Hall, Ft Worth), Model1 was there with a whole bunch of uppers, though I suppose they weren't built to order like a web order would be, and I think their prices were higher too.

yah..but those guys mark them WAY up

At the GRB..they wanted DPMS uppers with NO bolt or BCG for $695...(the guy had like 25 of em..now we know why they are so backlogged!)

I have a RRA upper coming in 4-6 months for $200 less than that!

You pay for having it in hand right now or waiting...that's the tradeoff

[The Annoyed Man]

This is just my opinion, and it is worth exactly what it cost you. . . .

My son bought a 16" HBAR upper by Model 1 from a vendor selling all kinds of lowers and uppers. IIRC, he paid about $540.00 for it. He already has all the other stuff for a really nice carbine, but the DPMS lowpro 16" bull-barreled upper he already had was a bit too heavy to be handy (and he already has a 24" bull-barreled RRA varminter). If you like a carry handle, but want options for optics, buy an upper with a removable carry handle (or buy yourself a flat top upper and a separate carry handle).

FWIW, my carbine, with an ER Shaw 16" light M4 barrel on it, can shoot 4 cold bore rounds that touch each other at 25 yards, with an Eotech sight (see attached photo). How accurate do you need to be with a carbine (see attached photo)? Admittedly, the groups opened up a bit as the barrel heated up, but after 60 rounds, I still put another 20 rounds into a golf ball-sized hole in the head of a B-27 target - and I am strictly an average shot.

Granted, a free-floated handguard will improve your accuracy somewhat, but from a strictly practical perspective, the $69 UTG forend on my rifle didn't seem to hurt any. What it all means is that I have a fair chance of hitting a man-sized target pretty confidently out well past 100 yards, without a magnifying scope. For me, the bottom line is that you have to define what it is you are building this rifle for. Me, I opted to own two ARs, one very accurate gun with a long heavy barrel and a good scope, and all the other good stuff like a free floated handguard, 2 stage trigger, etc.; and the other a handy carbine which would be quick and easy to use. The first is heavy and doesn't lend itself well to home defense or plinking. The second is less usable for hunting, but better for defense and plinking.

It was probably more money to do it that way, but I also had to make fewer compromises, and I got exactly the rifles I wanted for the applications intended - one for target shooting/hunting, and one for home defense/plinking.

Again, that's just my opinion, and it may not work well for you.

[RECIT]

The flat top receivers come naked and you have to buy additional sights before you can shoot it. The A2 style comes with a carry handle equipped with a rear sight and usually an A2 front sight post=buy ammo and go shoot. I have a flat top AR10 I NEED sights for right now. I can't shoot it till I get them. I can't put good sights on it until I put a quad rail on it...$400 later and another $250 for good folding sights and then I can shoot. Or just buy a scope or red dot sight and go shoot. But this is going to be my go-to gun so I want it done right the first time and I don't want to have to buy twice. I had an A2 style upper and I attached a fixed 4x COLT style scope to it and it worked like a champ. The handguard issue...if you want a free float to stick goodies like forward grip, lights, lasers, bipod ect. Get it, if you just want a decent rifle to be a plinker then save your money for sights or optics.

I think the chrome lined barrels wear out over long periods or many rounds down tube but are more accurate, where the stainless barrels would clean up easier, be less prone to rust and last longer. I have a rifle or two with each and I don't see any reason to go one way or the other. I have never worn out a barrel or had one rust or corrode b/c I neglected to clean it.

[stsai465]

Thanks to all for various advice and discussion.

Went ahead and put in an order at Stag Arms (FWIW, same brand as my lower), for their Model 2H. Basically a flat-top 16" 1/9 twist, chrome-lined, w/ flip rear/front post sights, including the bolt carrier assembly/handle for $530. Granted, I have to wait 25 weeks (estimated), but I just figure that gives me that much more time to save up the money (and stockpile .223 ammo). It doesn't necessarily have everything I was envisioning (no free-float), but for having the chrome-lined barrel, iron sights (even after I get an optic, my understanding is it's always worth having a BUIS, just in case), and the flat top (aesthetic choice), the price was pretty darned good for what I was seeing (Model 1, after adding the carrier/handle wasn't as good a price as I thought).

Overall, the rifle gets me into the black rifle club for about $790, which isn't too bad, considering the prices I was seeing around the gun shows and posted online. Since this will be my first black rifle, I figure going hog wild wasn't the smart thing; learn to shoot first, then figure out what I want on my next one (hopefully an AR-10 or other .308 equivalent)

[The Annoyed Man]

Thanks to all for various advice and discussion.

Went ahead and put in an order at Stag Arms (FWIW, same brand as my lower), for their Model 2H. Basically a flat-top 16" 1/9 twist, chrome-lined, w/ flip rear/front post sights, including the bolt carrier assembly/handle for $530. Granted, I have to wait 25 weeks (estimated), but I just figure that gives me that much more time to save up the money (and stockpile .223 ammo). It doesn't necessarily have everything I was envisioning (no free-float), but for having the chrome-lined barrel, iron sights (even after I get an optic, my understanding is it's always worth having a BUIS, just in case), and the flat top (aesthetic choice), the price was pretty darned good for what I was seeing (Model 1, after adding the carrier/handle wasn't as good a price as I thought).

Overall, the rifle gets me into the black rifle club for about $790, which isn't too bad, considering the prices I was seeing around the gun shows and posted online. Since this will be my first black rifle, I figure going hog wild wasn't the smart thing; learn to shoot first, then figure out what I want on my next one (hopefully an AR-10 or other .308 equivalent)

$790 is pretty good in today's market. One of my son's friends bought a complete upper and a complete lower from the same booth my son got his upper from at the Ft Worth show. The complete lower with collapsible stock, from RRA, was $295.00. The 16" HBAR 1:9 upper from Model 1 with A2 front sight was $520. He was out the door for $839.00, tax included, for a complete rifle - $49.00 more than you paid. OTH, he went home with it the same day. I can't say if saving $49.00 is worth a 25 week wait. That's for the buyer to decide, I guess. But, you surely got the better deal with regard to sights, as his rifle didn't include a flip up rear sight.

One thing you might want to look into as you save up money for it, is some kind of holographic or red dot sight. I have an Eotech 517-A65, which I like very much. But I also looked at Aimpoints that were in the same general price range. I think I settled on Eotech for two reasons: one being that I had the chance to try one out in advance on my son's carbine; and the second being that, when I had the money available, I found an available Eotech that I could walk away with. However, I am impressed with what I've read so far about the Aimpoints, and without wanting to start a "religious war," I'm sure I would have been as well served with the Aimpoint as with the Eotech.

The reason these sights are so great is that target acquisition is rapid, and intuitive. Once you get it zeroed for whatever range you want, you can be fairly certain at hitting anything you put the reticle on within a couple of hundred yards - if the target isn't too small. The Eotech reticle is a 1 MOA dot surrounded by a 65 MOA circle. The dot will cover a 1" circle at 100 yards. I zeroed mine for a battlefield zero of 25 yards. It is my understanding that, with the ballistics of the 55 grain bullet, my rifle is zeroed at 25 and 250 yards, so I can pretty much hit anything man-sized in center of mass out to 250 yards without much difficulty - holding a little bit low between 25 and 250, and holding higher out past 250.

My 56 year old eyes aren't worth a cup of warm spit looking through the iron sights. But by re-zeroing the iron sights after cowitnessing them with the Eotech's reticle, I found that I had a lot more confidence in the iron sights as well.

[stsai465]

$790 is pretty good in today's market. One of my son's friends bought a complete upper and a complete lower from the same booth my son got his upper from at the Ft Worth show. The complete lower with collapsible stock, from RRA, was $295.00. The 16" HBAR 1:9 upper from Model 1 with A2 front sight was $520. He was out the door for $839.00, tax included, for a complete rifle - $49.00 more than you paid. OTH, he went home with it the same day. I can't say if saving $49.00 is worth a 25 week wait. That's for the buyer to decide, I guess. But, you surely got the better deal with regard to sights, as his rifle didn't include a flip up rear sight.

One thing you might want to look into as you save up money for it, is some kind of holographic or red dot sight. I have an Eotech 517-A65, which I like very much. But I also looked at Aimpoints that were in the same general price range. I think I settled on Eotech for two reasons: one being that I had the chance to try one out in advance on my son's carbine; and the second being that, when I had the money available, I found an available Eotech that I could walk away with. However, I am impressed with what I've read so far about the Aimpoints, and without wanting to start a "religious war," I'm sure I would have been as well served with the Aimpoint as with the Eotech.

The reason these sights are so great is that target acquisition is rapid, and intuitive. Once you get it zeroed for whatever range you want, you can be fairly certain at hitting anything you put the reticle on within a couple of hundred yards - if the target isn't too small. The Eotech reticle is a 1 MOA dot surrounded by a 65 MOA circle. The dot will cover a 1" circle at 100 yards. I zeroed mine for a battlefield zero of 25 yards. It is my understanding that, with the ballistics of the 55 grain bullet, my rifle is zeroed at 25 and 250 yards, so I can pretty much hit anything man-sized in center of mass out to 250 yards without much difficulty - holding a little bit low between 25 and 250, and holding higher out past 250.

My 56 year old eyes aren't worth a cup of warm spit looking through the iron sights. But by re-zeroing the iron sights after cowitnessing them with the Eotech's reticle, I found that I had a lot more confidence in the iron sights as well.

I'm almost positive I was at the same booth as your friend's son; I saw that RRA lower for $295. I went with Stag for $30 cheaper; the guy at the booth insisted that the stripped lowers themselves were substantially the same.

Hypothetically, if I go to a gunshow and get the itch (and a really good price) then I could conceivably buy it and cancel the Stag order (I confirmed that it would be no charge if I cancel before it shipped).

Absolutely I was considering an Eotech or an Aimpoint or possibly an ACOG. Those were the sights I was told were the leading candidates for combat-optics. Granted, the latter is pricey, so I might go Eotech or Aimpoint, so I don't end up spending more than the rifle (besides, I might save the ACOG for the AR-10 ). I was probably going to go to the next gun shows and visually compare the 2 sights so I can determine which one suits my eyes better.

In terms of iron-sights, I'm almost sure any optic will beat it in terms of ease of use, accuracy, etc. But my understanding is that it's a good idea to have an old-fashioned sight as a backup (battery dies, optic get damaged/knocked out of alightment, etc)

[The Annoyed Man]

I'm almost positive I was at the same booth as your friend's son; I saw that RRA lower for $295. I went with Stag for $30 cheaper; the guy at the booth insisted that the stripped lowers themselves were substantially the same.

The booth I'm talking about was on the far right isle as you enter the room, near the very back. They seemed to be pretty good folks that ran it. Knew what they were talking about. They had an Eotech on display with a bullet hole right through the glass, and they said it still worked. If that's true, then I am duly impressed - although it wouldn't help you much if you were on the other side of that glass, trying to draw a bead on someone. . .