Trying to decide on an EBR...

[NcongruNt]

So I'm contemplating what to get myself once the government gives me back the load of cash it owes me from overpaid taxes...

I want to get something in .308 or 7.62x39, unless I can be convinced that 5.56/.223 is something I really want. I'm looking at some sort of AK variant in 7.62x39 or an AR variant in .308. I want something semi-auto with 30-round mags. I don't really want to spend more than a grand total (not including ammo). I am fine with open sights for now, moving to optics later.

Also, looking at AR platforms... I'm not sure even where to start. There are so many options and lines of guns that I'm at a loss as how to go about selecting what I want. With an AK, I'm fairly sure of what I want.... solid stock, traditional handguard, flash suppressor. I seem to be able to find what I want NIB for around $600.

Here's my list of pros and cons. If I offend your platform of choice, don't take it as an insult. I'm just trying to make as informed a decision as I can regarding my planned purchase. Feel free to correct my observations if you feel I am in error.


AK/7.62x39

PROS:
Proven reliability and ruggedness.
Ammo is cheaper than .308 or .223/5.56
Guns are more affordable.
Good ballistic power.
Relatively standard and straightforward platform.

CONS:
Less accurate than others.
Generally foreign-made (not a big con, but something to consider).


AR/.308

PROS:

Good accuracy.
Generally US-made.
Good ballistic power.
Relatively customizable

CONS:

AR platform not as reliable as AK.
Actions are more complicated than the AK platform.
Guns are more expensive.
Ammo is considerably more expensive than 7.62x39.


AR/5.56/.223

PROS:

Good accuracy.
Generally US-made.
Relatively customizable.
Widely available ammo.

CONS:

Ballistically less robust than .308 and 7.62x39
AR platform not as reliable as AK.
Actions are more complicated than the AK platform.
Guns are more expensive.
Ammo is more expensive than 7.62x39.


Any recommendations are welcome. I look forward to your input.

[Mike1951]

This is an excellent AK, with funds left over for ammo. I have heard too much about current Century Arms products to recommend a cheaper WASR-1 or similar.

http://www.aimsurplus.com/acatalog/Bulg ... Rifle.html

For my AR, I bought a Sabre Defence M4, 14.5" + FH. But others here know far more than I do about AR's.

[NcongruNt]

This is an excellent AK, with funds left over for ammo. I have heard too much about current Century Arms products to recommend a cheaper WASR-1 or similar.

http://www.aimsurplus.com/acatalog/Bulg ... Rifle.html

For my AR, I bought a Sabre Defence M4, 14.5" + FH. But others here know far more than I do about AR's.

That AK looks pretty decent. I like the fact that it has tighter tolerances and the chrome-lined barrel. How is it on reliability and accuracy?

As for the AR, looks like yours exceeds my $1000 limit by a bit, as does everything else they make. If I went 5.56, I'd perhaps consider something like the Bushmaster M4A3 Patrolman's Carbine. I'm not sure how I'd like a collapsing stock, but otherwise it seems like a decent choice that can be had for a little under $1000.

[Mike1951]

I bought essentially the same rifle, SSR-85C2, from Armory USA locally before they sold to Elk River.

It's an excellent rifle. It caused me to spend the money to upgrade my trigger group on my SAR-1, though.

I couldn't shoot the sorry trigger that came on the SAR-1 after shooting the sweet trigger on the SSR.

Accept this as heresay, but I was told that the quality decline in Century Arms products has to do with the military components being used up and them turning out their own parts now.

Not saying that you get couldn't get a good Century for $350, but you might not. QA is iffy.

[Mike1951]

As for the AR, looks like yours exceeds my $1000 limit by a bit, as does everything else they make. If I went 5.56, I'd perhaps consider something like the Bushmaster M4A3 Patrolman's Carbine. I'm not sure how I'd like a collapsing stock, but otherwise it seems like a decent choice that can be had for a little under $1000.

It might be close. At the last GRB show, I saw a Sabre Defense M4 without the removeable carry handle and with a 16" barrel for $979. Mine has the carry handle and the 14.5" costs more than the 16".

But BM or DPMS will fall well below the $1000.

I just saw someone on GlockTalk reselling some of the CMMG bargain bin rifles. That was a fantastic deal while it lasted with many reporting as new rifles for $570. Of course, this guy wants $675 shipped.

Several threads recently about assembling your own. I wasn't that bold, but there is an 11% excise tax on assembled rifles which I understand you would save if you bought a complete upper and a complete lower and put them together.

[The Annoyed Man]

You should be able to get a pretty decent AR in 5.56/.223 for between $800-$900, NIB. If you want a .308 AR, consider used rifles. Granted the AKs are very reliable, but I haven't heard anything about ARs being inherently unreliable. My Bushmaster has functioned flawlessly, and it comes apart quite easily, so I'm not sure why ARs have a rep for complexity or unreliability.

Another possibility is a Saiga .308, which is a sporterized AK in .308 Winchester/7.62 NATO, and at less than $500, it will cost you considerably less than an AR platform in either caliber. You get your AK, and you get your .308 cartridge. What could be better?

[tboesche]

I have been struggling with this decision as well. I have decided to gothe AK route, mainly due to the cost.

[DParker]

So I'm contemplating what to get myself once the government gives me back the load of cash it owes me from overpaid taxes...

That's odd. Their version of the story is that in the interest of economic stimulation they're generously giving you money you're not really entitled to

I want to get something in .308 or 7.62x39, unless I can be convinced that 5.56/.223 is something I really want.

As with any other issue of caliber selection the first question is, for what purpose will you be using it? Simple range plinking? Competative shooting? Varmint hunting? Home defense? Some combination of the preceeding?

I'm looking at some sort of AK variant in 7.62x39 or an AR variant in .308. I want something semi-auto with 30-round mags. I don't really want to spend more than a grand total (not including ammo). I am fine with open sights for now, moving to optics later.

I can't speak to the AK marketplace, but there are a plenty of good pre-assembled ARs with iron sights available for well under $1K. If you go the kit route then you can get one even cheaper, or get more goodies for the same amount you'd pay for a bare-bones pre-assembled model.

Also, looking at AR platforms... I'm not sure even where to start. There are so many options and lines of guns that I'm at a loss as how to go about selecting what I want. With an AK, I'm fairly sure of what I want.... solid stock, traditional handguard, flash suppressor. I seem to be able to find what I want NIB for around $600.

I've never been one to consider having options to be a bad thing. Try ar15.com and you'll quickly find everything you need to know to make an informed decision with regard to the basics of AR models.

Here's my list of pros and cons. If I offend your platform of choice, don't take it as an insult. I'm just trying to make as informed a decision as I can regarding my planned purchase. Feel free to correct my observations if you feel I am in error.


AK/7.62x39

PROS:
Proven reliability and ruggedness.
Ammo is cheaper than .308 or .223/5.56
Guns are more affordable.
Good ballistic power.
Relatively standard and straightforward platform.

Can't disagree here, except that I'd have to hear your definition of "standard". It's difficult to argue that, in this country at least, the AK platform is as standard as the AR, at least with regard to vendor support.

CONS:
Less accurate than others.
Generally foreign-made (not a big con, but something to consider).


AR/.308

PROS:

Good accuracy.
Generally US-made.
Good ballistic power.
Relatively customizable

I think your use of the phrase "relatively customizable" here is the epitome of understatement

CONS:

AR platform not as reliable as AK.

Were you planning on taking one of these guns into a desert combat situation and then abusing it? If not then I doubt you'd notice any difference in inherent reliability between modern versions of the AK & AR platforms.

Actions are more complicated than the AK platform.
Guns are more expensive.
Ammo is considerably more expensive than 7.62x39.

All true.

AR/5.56/.223

PROS:

Good accuracy.
Generally US-made.
Relatively customizable.

Still an understatement.

Widely available ammo.

CONS:

Ballistically less robust than .308 and 7.62x39

Maybe an issue...maybe not. We still don't know what your intended application is.

AR platform not as reliable as AK.

See previous response to this.

Actions are more complicated than the AK platform.
Guns are more expensive.
Ammo is more expensive than 7.62x39.

By about 15% or so (I only did a quick comparison between a few bulk packagings, so don't take that exact figure to the bank.) Whether or not that's significant enough to matter (about 3 cents/rd difference for cheap range ammo) is going to be a very subjective thing.

[melkor41]

dont forget that the AR platform can fire many rounds and be changed from upper to upper with just 2 pins.

99$ for cmmg lower from cheaper than dirt.
Plus
520$ for a 6.8 REM SPC kit from model1sales

or

460$ for a 5.56 kit from model1sales

or

510$ for a 7.62x39 kit from model1sales

http://www.model1sales.com/catalog-list ... &storeid=1

thats for standard rifles, they also have carbine kits, but you said you did not like the collapsable stock.

Those are all your choice of a2 (handle) or a3 (flat)

Worse case above your looking at 619$ and I think you will do far better on quality than century arms can offer right now.