Got my first AR15, What do you think?

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The Annoyed Man
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Re: Got my first AR15, What do you think?

#16

Post by The Annoyed Man »

Noveske... :drool:

Very nice indeed, and at $1,400, I think you still got an excellent price.

As far as EOTech sights go, we've got two on ARs in my family, and we've had no trouble getting irons to cowitness with the reticle in the bottom 1/3rd of the optic. They work just fine in that regard, without the adapter. At least for both me and my 20 year old son they do. Raising the sight further by means of an adapter would actually make it impossible on either of our carbines to cowitness the irons with the reticle because only the very top edge of the front sight would be visible through the EOTech when using the rear sight.

That said, optics are very much a matter of personal preference, and what works for you may not be the best choice for someone else. I agree with gigag04 that you should ditch the EOTech if you can't make it work for you. (Fortunately for you, if you do decide to swap it out, you shouldn't have any trouble selling the EOTech of you want to get rid of it entirely.) But resist the temptation to ditch something that works, based on snob appeal, at risk of obtaining something that doesn't work for you. I once tried a friend's AR with an Aimpoint sight on it, and I didn't like it as much as I do the EOTech because my field of view was too restricted and the "both eyes wide open" thing didn't work for me on that optic, but that's me. Other friends of mine prefer the Aimpoints for the same reasons I prefer the EOTech. Those that can afford them really like the ACOG, but I've never had the opportunity to try one out for myself. But for me, with my 57 year old eyeballs, the EOTech makes target acquisition and reticle placement easy to do with both eyes wide open — and that is the desired result, whatever combat optic you choose. My only real objection to it is one of esthetics. It is a large, fairly heavy piece of kit, and it doesn't "look like a scope," sitting up there on top of the rifle. Rest assured that, if you do decide to keep it, your optic isn't a piece of junk. It is actually very well made, quite rugged, and it works as advertised.

One suggestion if you do decide to keep the EOTech, consider adding a magnifier on a flip to side mount. However, I don't consider that to be absolutely essential, as this really isn't a long range designed weapon you've got there, but it will add some versatility to your optics if you don't mind the extra weight. (My friend whose Aimpoint I tried out had a flip to side magnifier for his Aimpoint. He also had a suppressor on the rifle, and that was the first time I ever fired a suppressed weapon. Kewl.) Also, the flip to side magnifier can be stored off the rifle until needed without affecting the zero of your optics system. Keep in mind though that, if the battery does go down on your EOTech (or other battery powered optic), the magnifier will be useless because you will no longer have a reticle.
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jeeperbryan
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Re: Got my first AR15, What do you think?

#17

Post by jeeperbryan »

Very nice rifle. Glad to hear that you bought a Noveske. You have no idea how many people buy their first AR15 and get shafted. I saw a guy on another board pay $1200 for a DPMS with all cheap UTG and NCStar accessories. Felt bad for the guy. In your case, looks like you came out the winner.

As far as optics....I prefer the Eotech. Like TAM stated, the field of view is much better. I find the reticle to be much better than Aimpoint. Only downside to Eotech is battery life. Other than that, I'll take Eotech over Aimpoint anyday. I suppose if I was building a a problem arises rifle I would go with Aimpoint. But actually, my a problem arises rifle has no optics at all; iron sights are deadly accurate, keep their zero, and don't require batteries.

Regarding co-witnessing, I think it's over-rated and over-analyzed. If you use your BUIS for what their intended, then your optic has already gone down or lost batteries. In that case, you dont need to worry about co-witnessing. Just flip up your BUIS and keep shooting.
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gigag04
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Re: Got my first AR15, What do you think?

#18

Post by gigag04 »

jeeperbryan wrote: Regarding co-witnessing, I think it's over-rated and over-analyzed. If you use your BUIS for what their intended, then your optic has already gone down or lost batteries. In that case, you dont need to worry about co-witnessing. Just flip up your BUIS and keep shooting.
Many in the tactical community would disagree with you. It is however, a very personal choice and I get that. Also - if I am ever in a gunfight and my optics go down, I doubt I'll have time to use a fine motor skill to flip some little iron sights. It has also been my experience that flip up sights are more prone to breaking. To each his own but I find fixed iron sights preferable, even when using an optic.
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Re: Got my first AR15, What do you think?

#19

Post by A-R »

Agree completely with TAM's assessment - to each his own. I don't like Aimpoints at all. Nothing wrong with them, their built well and obviously work extremely well and serve their function for a number of people. I just find the EOTech design easier to use for quick target acquisition and LOVE the donut+dot reticle - having a 65 MOA donut for fast acquisition and then a 1 MOA dot for distance pinpointing is a brilliant design.

My only issue with either 1x type optic is my eyes aren't what they once were and I don't find them useful beyong about 75 yards, 100 in a pinch. My plan for a while has been to switch between my EOTech for self-defense, training, plinking and a large magnified scope for hunting and long-range shooting. But now I'm thinking along the same lines as RECIT and getting a 1-4x scope with a small red dot mounted either on top or off to the side .... very similar to one of these set ups

http://www.burristactical.com/xtrtactical1.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://stores.homestead.com/Laruetactic ... eFront.bok" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; (the rifle with the desert tan furniture on front page, 1-4x scope on forward-leaning QD mount plus small red dot on a 45-degree angle side mount (twist the left - if you're right handed shooter - in order to utilize the red dot)
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Re: Got my first AR15, What do you think?

#20

Post by The Annoyed Man »

[hijack]

Regarding EOTech battery life.... I chose the model 517.A65 for two reasons. One is that it uses AA batteries, which are cheap and easily obtainable, and which can be recharged if you buy the right ones. EOTech makes the following claims about battery life in this model: 1,000 continuous hours (lithium) at nominal setting 12; 600 continuous with AA alkaline. Even at the lower number with alkaline batteries, 600 continuous hours is 25 consecutive days. Granted, shelf life is shorter with alkalines, but again, they are easily available and cheap. Using rechargeables if you have a power source available obviates the need to be worried about where you're going to buy AAs. Also, some rifle stocks (like my VLTOR, for instance), and some vertical fore-end battle grips have battery storage in them. Changing the batteries on an EOTech takes all of a few seconds. One assumes that a thinking individual who is concerned about these things would make sure that he had a) enough juice in the existing batteries, and b) some backup batteries on hand before going into harms way. If I were a soldier, this would be simply part of my equipment check before walking out the front gate.

I guess that my point is that I would be more worried about how well the optic will withstand battle incurred damage and keep on working, than I would be about my batteries going belly up. Of course, some kind of tritium/fiberoptic powered reticle would eliminate that concern entirely, but such are not always available in the price range affordable to mere peons. OTH, I've seen an EOTech on display at a gun show which had a bullet hole right through the display, and still worked. And, I've seen enough pictures, NOT on the EOTech website, of Americans in Iraq and Afghanistan in which rifles with EOTech sights mounted are displayed to keep me from worrying too much about whether or not they are up to the rigors of my measly civilian life.

The second reason I chose the 517.A65 model was because the on/off/control buttons for the reticle are located on the side of the device, and not the rear of it. This makes it much easier to use a magnifier with the optic if you want to, since in the real world, the placement of the magnifier would restrict your access to the buttons if they were on the rear.

[/hijack]

Sorry for momentarily hijacking your thread. I just thought it was important for you to not get too obsessive about having an EOTech and not having an Aimpoint or some other optic. If it doesn't work for you, then by all means swap it out. These are pretty personal choices. But if it does work for you, don't feel like you've got an inferior piece of kit. Thousands of Army, Navy, Marine, and Airforce personnel are staking their lives on the quality of the EOTech optics in some very hard places around the world. I even recently saw a special on the History Channel about Coast Guard interdiction of drug runners in speed boats. The CG had snipers, shooting Barrett .50 BMG rifles from helicopter platforms, aiming at disabling the outboard motors of speedboats. They were using EOTech sights mounted on those .50 cal rifles. I think that's probably rugged enough for civilian use.
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Re: Got my first AR15, What do you think?

#21

Post by gigag04 »

Yeah my comments regarding the Eotech were very much in jest. It's ford vs chevy if you will...some people will stake their claim and cling to it. They are both fine optics and great companies that support fighting americans all over. I just like to pick on Eotech owners because the dang thing is so trendy. When they had come out Aimpoints had been around forever.

Those of us that have optics are on our patrol rifles at work are about evenly split. I think the Eotechs have a bit better showing on our dept's tac team, however there are still some Aimpoints there too.
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Re: Got my first AR15, What do you think?

#22

Post by A-R »

gigag04 wrote:Yeah my comments regarding the Eotech were very much in jest. It's ford vs chevy if you will...some people will stake their claim and cling to it. They are both fine optics and great companies that support fighting americans all over. I just like to pick on Eotech owners because the dang thing is so trendy. When they had come out Aimpoints had been around forever.

Those of us that have optics are on our patrol rifles at work are about evenly split. I think the Eotechs have a bit better showing on our dept's tac team, however there are still some Aimpoints there too.
I never thought I would own either, but an LEO friend of mine (a former SWAT guy) let me fire some rounds with his Colt AR and EOTech set up and I was blown away. I knew then I had to have one. At the time, I had been looking at $100 knock off red dots and such because didn't think I want to spend so much $$$ on one.

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Re: Got my first AR15, What do you think?

#23

Post by HankB »

The Annoyed Man wrote: Regarding EOTech battery life.... I chose the model 517.A65 for two reasons. One is that it uses AA batteries, which are cheap and easily obtainable, and which can be recharged if you buy the right ones. . . . The second reason I chose the 517.A65 model was because the on/off/control buttons for the reticle are located on the side of the device, and not the rear of it. . . .
When I built my AR carbine, I chose the exact same model sight for the same reasons . . . plus the improved field of view and quicker-to-acquire reticle over the Aimpoint. (Also, I had some Cabela's points to use up, a coupon, and got a $150 gift card as part of a Cabela's Club promotion. :cool: )

Aimpoints are good sights - not going to knock their build quality - but for the purposes I wanted the rifle for, after a few side-by-side tests, I chose the Eotech.

$1400 for a Noveske with Eotech and Surefire sounds like a good price to me.

Just for the heck of it, I WOULD measure the barrel myself . . . close the bolt on an empty chamber, slide a cleaning rod in from the muzzle, and mark the rod where the (permanently attached) flash hider ends. measure that distance - sixteen or more inches and you're golden.
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Re: Got my first AR15, What do you think?

#24

Post by A-R »

HankB wrote:Just for the heck of it, I WOULD measure the barrel myself . . . close the bolt on an empty chamber, slide a cleaning rod in from the muzzle, and mark the rod where the (permanently attached) flash hider ends. measure that distance - sixteen or more inches and you're golden.
Never would've thought of that. That's a great way to measure any barrel length. Learn something new every day :tiphat:
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Re: Got my first AR15, What do you think?

#25

Post by gigag04 »

austinrealtor wrote:
HankB wrote:Just for the heck of it, I WOULD measure the barrel myself . . . close the bolt on an empty chamber, slide a cleaning rod in from the muzzle, and mark the rod where the (permanently attached) flash hider ends. measure that distance - sixteen or more inches and you're golden.
Never would've thought of that. That's a great way to measure any barrel length. Learn something new every day :tiphat:
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Re: Got my first AR15, What do you think?

#26

Post by WEC »

The flash hider appears to be a Surefire FH556-212A. If it is indeed perm attached, then the barrel length should meet the 16" requirement.

Nice price on a nice rifle! FYI the stock looks to be a VLTOR modstock and the BUIS are Troy Battlesights (are they also Noveske marked?).
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