Stupid, Inexperienced Long-gun-Guy Question

[JSThane]

3. While we're on the subject of butt stocks, I highly recommend that you ditch the adjustable stock and go with a fixed, shorty stock. I recently finished up teaching a shotgun instructor course to 30 instructors, all LE and military. One department had installed the useless Knoxx (now Blackhawk, I think) stock on their department's weapons. When I set up the short stoke / double feed stoppage clearance drill, the folks with the Knox pogo stick on the end of their 870's could not clear the double feed. Ditto with the adjustable stocks. If you need to hold down the action release and pull down hard on the fore end while slamming the butt stock as hard as you can on the deck, it's a no - go with the Knoxx stock and collapsible stocks.

Curious here, and I know this is diverging slightly from the topic, but with this stoppage/jam/malfunction, are you referencing the stoppage induced by having a round stuck between the bolt and the shell lifter, with the bolt closed? I ask, because I'm not conceiving of how a double-feed requiring impact to clear would be possible with my Mossberg 590, but I have experienced that exact user-induced failure with an 870 during a stress course, and witnessed it a few more times with worn retention teeth on 870 magazines (combined with clumsy/fumbled reloading), allowing the just-loaded round to pop out of the magazine and between the lifter and bolt.

If this is indeed the jam you're referencing, I'm in full agreement on the Knoxx/Blackhawk stock. If it's not, I'd like to know exactly what jam you're inducing, so I can figure out a way to avoid doing it with my own Mossberg (fitted with the said pogo stick, which is wonderful for recoil reduction, but admittedly has its short points).

[Silent Professional]

It's the only long gun I have ever owned and the only other experience was with a long gun was the M16 in basic training in the Army.

And pardon my forgetting to say, thank you for your service to our country, Sir.

[Silent Professional]

Curious here, and I know this is diverging slightly from the topic, but with this stoppage/jam/malfunction, are you referencing the stoppage induced by having a round stuck between the bolt and the shell lifter, with the bolt closed? I ask, because I'm not conceiving of how a double-feed requiring impact to clear would be possible with my Mossberg 590, but I have experienced that exact user-induced failure with an 870 during a stress course, and witnessed it a few more times with worn retention teeth on 870 magazines (combined with clumsy/fumbled reloading), allowing the just-loaded round to pop out of the magazine and between the lifter and bolt.

If this is indeed the jam you're referencing, I'm in full agreement on the Knoxx/Blackhawk stock. If it's not, I'd like to know exactly what jam you're inducing, so I can figure out a way to avoid doing it with my own Mossberg (fitted with the said pogo stick, which is wonderful for recoil reduction, but admittedly has its short points).

Sir, that is exactly what I am talking about. It's less likely to happen with a Mossberg due to the cut out shell lifter, but it's generally caused by the user short stroking the forearm and failing to eject the spent casing before pushing the forearm forward, inducing a double feed.

Everyone is looking for a high priced technological answer for poor or absent technique. When I do a 1 day Shotgun Instructor Intensive Immersion course, I typically shoot 250 - 350 rounds in one day with no discomfort or bruising, wearing nothing more than a wicking polo shirt. I am not a large or heavily muscled individual, but everyone I teach is able to reduce the push back of the 12 gauge by at least 50% (subjective) by using nothing more than creator issued tools - their hands and arms.

My limited experience has taught me that the more complex you make a weapon system, the more likely it will fail when you need it the most. I have had that happen to me, so I try and keep my systems as simple as possible.

At the end of my Reduced Light Instructor course my final death by Power Point slide reads,

"“No amount of cool gear will make up for a fundamental lack of skill.”