2 .308 Bolt Guns, 2 Different Visions....

[Carry-a-Kimber]

Yankee Hill Machine units that accept a quick detach suppressor.

DO IT!! My YHM 7.62 Ti is my new favorite toy.

[threoh8]

I generally like having stripper clip slots/guides on my bolt guns, and on a scout rifle I'd really like that capability. With a little practice, it's a fast way to load and a compact way of carrying ammunition. That does limit the choice of scopes to those that leave the ocular bell even with or forward of the back of the front receiver ring.
The GSR looks like a really good setup, especially in the export format (18.5" stainless barrel, no flash hider). But ... I better finish my heavy barrel Mauser first.

[The Annoyed Man]

Brief range report.......

I spent a couple of hours shooting at Elm Fork on the 100 yard line this afternoon with the new rifle. Results were within my expectations with a couple of minor surprises.

Details:
I shot three different commercially produced loads, all of which were picked because I had shot them in my Remington 700 before and so I had a baseline to compare to: 165 grain Federal Fusion, 168 grain Federal Match, and 175 grain Black Hills Moly Match.

The Federal Fusion cartridge is an excellent hunting load which shoots fairly accurately out of my Remington 700. In that rifle, group sizes have averaged around 1", with the smallest I ever got with that cartridge being .5 inch, and the largest around 1.25 inches. In the Ruger, this cartridge did not shoot as well. However, after expending a number of rounds just trying to get on paper and then on target, I was eventually able to put 10 rounds into a 3" diameter circle. I never actually measured an individual 4 shot group with a ruler of the 30 rounds fired of this cartridge, but I'm going to go out on a limb and say that they ran about 2" in size for 4 rounds. I would feel reasonably confident using this cartridge for whitetail or hog hunting within 200 yards.

The Federal 168 grain Match was a disappointment.....surprise #1. Other gun writers have gotten good accuracy results out of this cartridge in a Ruger Gunsite Scout rifle. Not me. The groups opened up and were inconsistent enough as to be basically unmeasurable. It is possible I suppose that I simply got a bad batch of ammo, but you would think that box of Federal Match would have better QC than that. I fired only ten rounds of this cartridge before moving on to the next. Maybe I'll try shooting some more of this load the next time I go to the range.

Black Hills 175 grain Moly Match.....BINGO! This load put 4 rounds into 2 holes which were practically touching. I didn't measure it, but it was well under 1". This was also the second surprise because I would have expected the rounds to hit a little bit lower than the 165 or 168 grain bullets, but they were actually impacting about 1" high of point of aim. Typically, a 200 yard zero for a .308 will put POI 1.8" above POA at 100 yards; so I'm guessing that 1" high at 100 yards wil be about a 150 yard zero or thereabouts. (I just ran the numbers through my ballistics calculator, and that's about right.) I've found in the past that Black Hills match ammo is loaded pretty hot, so I guess it shouldn't be that surprising that these impacted a bit high, but I just didn't expect that much out of a short barrel with a heavier bullet.......and yet this was the best performing of the three. At this point, I would have to choose this load for this rifle, and I would not change my zero. My ballistics calculator calls this a 150 yard zero with apogee of 1" high at 100 yards, and 14" low at 300 yards. That's a good working range.

Impressions:
THE SCOPE: I like the scope. I like it a lot, and it is perfect for this application. The glass is very clear. The crosshairs are fine enough to not obscure the target. The Firedot is useful, even in daylight. I had two complaints, one major, one minor. My biggest complaint has nothing really to do with the quality or function of this scope, it had to do with the magnification. 5X is barely enough to be useable for me at 100 yards, due to my having the older Mark 60 eyeballs. It would be difficult to find a scout scope with higher magnification that will gather as much light as this one, and will have an illuminated reticle. However, the one thing I did miss is the lack of any kind of ranging stadia on the reticle, which would have made zeroing much faster and easier, not to mention being useful for figuring holdovers and windage.

THE RIFLE: I love it. It isn't perfect, and there is at least one modification that needs to be done—lightening and cleanup of the trigger—but overall, it is exactly what I thought it would be, and exactly what I was looking for. It is not the lightest .308 I've ever handled. In fact, the guy in the lane to my right had some model of a Tikka in .308 that was physically larger but lighter by a fair amount than my Ruger. His rifle weighed in at 6.75 lb with the scope mounted and a bipod. The Ruger weighs 7 lb sans scope. That said, it does give the impression of being very light and handy. It balances well, just in front of the magazine. They say that it is loud because of that 16" barrel, but from my vantage point behind the scope, I couldn't tell. It does recoil sharply, but it's not at all unpleasant as the prodigious recoil pad very much does it's job. I had no discomfort after shooting 44 rounds of .308. (Not that 44 rounds is that much, but still...)

AMMUNITION: I would be comfortable with the Federal Fusion 165 grain load for hunting inside of 200 yards, but I would like to try the 170 and 180 grain versions of the same for use out to 300 yards, given the performance of the Black Hills 175 grain Match load. Also, I've got some 180 grain SSTs in the cupboard which I'd like to work up a dandy load with....if it will shoot.

Anyway, that's my overall impressions of the rifle after a brief range trip........not exactly a ringing out, but maybe informative in a small way to somebody.

[bagman45]

Great review TAM!! Interesting that it shot the heavier loads best. Will be interested to see what you can wring out of it with other factory loads and tinkering with handloads. SO, after your first range run, if you had to choose ONE 308 to fulfill the Scout concept of being handy enough to protect/defend while being accurate enough to carry in the field for hunting; would this be the one????

[The Annoyed Man]

Great review TAM!! Interesting that it shot the heavier loads best. Will be interested to see what you can wring out of it with other factory loads and tinkering with handloads. SO, after your first range run, if you had to choose ONE 308 to fulfill the Scout concept of being handy enough to protect/defend while being accurate enough to carry in the field for hunting; would this be the one????

It might. I need to acquire a M1A Scout to give a complete answer.

Between the two bolt guns, in terms of pure riflemanship, and if I can drive to where I'm going and then get comfortably set up, I'd have to say that my R700 is the better gun. The bolt operates more smoothly and it is far more accurate. But if I'm reduced to carrying a rifle, the Ruger wins hands down. It is accurate enough. It is far lighter, and the box magazine gives faster reloads of greater quantities. The R700 is a "hilltop rifle" compared to the Ruger's "brush gun," if that makes sense. For hunting in Texas where the ranges are not so extended, I'd probably take the Ruger. For antelope hunting in Colorado/New Mexico, I'd take the Remington. In the personal defense role inside of 200 yards, I'd take the Ruger, no question. In that gray area between 200-300 yards, it's a tossup. Outside of 300 yards, the Remington wins. That said, inside of 50 yards where rate of fire becomes more important than caliber and accuracy, give me an AR15 carbine.

I don't really know if the "One Rifle" concept can ever be truly answered, simply because I don't have to think that way. I have now THREE different .308s in three different configurations—an AR10 SASS rifle, a long-range bolt rifle, and a scout bolt rifle. I'm probably going to sell the AR10. It's an extraordinarily accurate gun—as accurate as my R700—but it's really heavy, and the rifle just doesn't speak to me the way I thought it would when I bought it. When/if I sell it, I'm going to buy another .308 battle rifle, and the M1A scout is right at the top of the list, which also includes possibly a FAL or a PTR91. Of course the problem with either of those latter two is that they are heavier even than a standard M1A....so it will probably be an M1A Scout.

THEN I'll be able to intelligently answer your question. In the meantime, this Ruger is a keeper.

[texasmusic]

I don't really know if the "One Rifle" concept can ever be truly answered,

You rarely see guys on the PGA playing with just one club.

[longhorn_92]

Best bet... is to sell your AR10 and buy an M1A Scout!

[The Annoyed Man]

Best bet... is to sell your AR10 and buy an M1A Scout!

I wanted to buy yours, but you took it off the market!

[bagman45]

TAM, thanks again for putting so much thought into your reply, and to the others for pitching in! Deep sigh, shaking head; not making any shopping progress (which is REALLY bad, as my better half has given me the green light to buy some stuff....). Still leaning hard toward the Sig 716, and will likely end up with one. That said, all of this M1A talk has me re-considering my decision not to go with a SOCOM 16 or buy another HK91 pattern gun. Are any of the HK clones worth the money? Don't mean to hijack the thread, as I will end up with the Ruger down the road. Cheers!!

[74novaman]

I don't really know if the "One Rifle" concept can ever be truly answered,

You rarely see guys on the PGA playing with just one club.

Heh. I like that response.

[threoh8]

I don't really know if the "One Rifle" concept can ever be truly answered,

You rarely see guys on the PGA playing with just one club.

Guys on the PGA seldom encounter fleeting targets of opportunity along the course, and almost never have to consider using a club in self defense.

(Hmmm ... golf might actually be interesting in a "Hogan's Alley" format. Sounds like a good "Off Topic" thread.)

[The Annoyed Man]

TAM, thanks again for putting so much thought into your reply, and to the others for pitching in! Deep sigh, shaking head; not making any shopping progress (which is REALLY bad, as my better half has given me the green light to buy some stuff....). Still leaning hard toward the Sig 716, and will likely end up with one. That said, all of this M1A talk has me re-considering my decision not to go with a SOCOM 16 or buy another HK91 pattern gun. Are any of the HK clones worth the money? Don't mean to hijack the thread, as I will end up with the Ruger down the road. Cheers!!

http://www.onesourcetactical.com/ptr91g ... KvC1uOe_h8

[Liberty]

TAM,
I've been fascinated by the GSM and the one man one rifle concept. I have been confused about one thing though. The 3 position safety.
The manual makes it sound likeyou have to put the safety in the 2nd position to load the chamber, and then put it in fire position to fire the gun. If so this sounds pretty awkward. Am i misunderstanding this?

[The Annoyed Man]

TAM,
I've been fascinated by the GSM and the one man one rifle concept. I have been confused about one thing though. The 3 position safety.
The manual makes it sound likeyou have to put the safety in the 2nd position to load the chamber, and then put it in fire position to fire the gun. If so this sounds pretty awkward. Am i misunderstanding this?

The safety has three positions which have the following functions:

1) All the way forward: Gun is hot if loaded and chambered. Bolt can be cycled.

2) Halfway back: Sear is disconnected from trigger so gun is safe. Bolt can be cycled.

3) All the way back: Sear is disconnected from trigger so gun is safe. Bolt is locked in the closed position and cannot be cycled.

Position 2 allows you to chamber a round, or eject a chambered round or spent case, or use the cycling bolt to empty the magazine......if you wanted to do that for some silly reason, but you don't have to safe the gun to cycle the bolt. (All Model 77 variants have this three position safety, but some of them are blind magazines, and some have a hinged floorplate magazine like a R700 BDL. This one obviously has a removable box magazine, so it would not be necessary to cycle the bolt to empty the magazine.)

So I guess the answer is, "no, you don't have to safe the gun to chamber a round, but obviously use common sense about whether or not you think you need to safe the gun in any given situation."

[Liberty]

Thanks, You are a lot clearer than the manual. I kept interpeting the manual that one couldn't move the bolt while the safety was in any position other than 2. That didn't make any sense. Your description makes more sense thanks. Glad you are happy with your new purchase. I can't wait until I get one.