Help Choosing a new 308

[gigag04]

Our Tac snipers ordered 2 POF 308s last year and returned them because they were all over the place.

When it's my turn for a semi auto 308, in going to do it right and get an OBR.

That might be out of your budget so check the LAR 308, by DPMS. Not my favorite brand, but I've heard too much good about that platform to ignore it.

[hankintexas]

check out Bison Arms AR10,,... I just placed an order from them (not in .308 though).

[Moby]

Sir I have an Armalite AR 10 .308
All the the specs you asked for, especially customizing are there.

I could not be happier with this platform for Hog hunting which is exactly what I got it for. TIGHT groups at 200 yards.

[hankintexas]

Sir I have an Armalite AR 10 .308
All the the specs you asked for, especially customizing are there.

I could not be happier with this platform for Hog hunting which is exactly what I got it for. TIGHT groups at 200 yards.

[ Image ]

NICE!

[The Annoyed Man]

Thanks for the input guys! I do love me some M1A, and have shot it quite a bit. In fact, I was convinced that the SOCOM 16 was the one for me; until I actually handled it. Great gun, but reminded me of my mini-14 - not as handy or accurate as my AR's.... SO, I'm pretty set on an AR patterned 308. Could do the POF, but the Sig 716 looks like a similar build for WAY less. TAM; I am intrigued by the Ruger Scout as "the 308 after this one" - why do you miss yours??

I miss my M1A because it was an infinitely more practical rifle than my AR10. This is not an indictment of AR10s...I'm only comparing the M1A I had against the AR10 I now have. The M1A is more of the "beware of the man with one rifle" kind of rifle. It's a proven reliable design, and it has good practical accuracy (as opposed to benchrest accuracy). Also, I have had a love affair with the platform since I was a teenaged boy. And my full-sized M1A weighed less than my AR10.

My AR10 is capable of putting 4 rounds into one ragged hole at 100 yards, but it is a beast. It weighs 15.6 lb with the scope mounted and no magazine. It's a magnificent "overwatch" weapon and a good target rifle, but outside of those applications, it doesn't have much use in the field because it's too darn heavy to tote around—for me anyway. My M1A weighed about 10.5 lb with the scope mounted and an empty magazine.....heavy, but still portable.

The Ruger Gunsite Scout is an amazingly tiny and handy rifle. I had the chance to fondle and drool over one the other day at Cabelas.....sadly, a right handed one. I knew that it was small and light because all the hype and articles said it was, but I wasn't prepared for just how small and light it is. My AR15 has a 16" HBAR barrel, and the two rifles are similar in length, but the AR15 is noticeably heavier. When they say the RGS is light and handy, they're not kidding. It is REALLY light and handy. It's a delight. Probably its closest comparison would be a carbine length lever rifle, but one with all the advantages of .308 over .30-30. One of the reasons the RGS's 10 round magazine looks so prominent is because the rifle surrounding it is so small, if that gives you an idea.

I have posted a number of times about having a really bad back. It really is bad. I participated in a fundraising 5K event yesterday, and I'm half crippled today despite having trained for the event for the 2 months prior. I love to hunt, and anything that makes it possible for me to get back into the hunting fields is a plus. I've hunted with my M1A and found it a bit heavy to carry around. I've hunted with my 26" barreled Remington 700, and it weighs about the same as the M1A, but it's barrel is 4" longer, so it's even less handy. What I really need is a "do all" .30 caliber rifle of carbine length that has good practical accuracy, is light weight and handy, has a removable box magazine, and is dead nuts reliable. The RGS fills that bill at half the cost of an M1A of any length. If I really need a semi-automatic battle rifle for SD purposes, I still have an AR15. But I think the RGS beats the AR as a truck gun, a walking around gun, and as a general purpose hunting gun. You can hunt with an AR15, but my opinion is that .308 is a better all around hunting caliber than .223.

I'd like to have another M1A some day, but I have more practical use for the Ruger Gunsite Scout. I hope that answers the question.

[bagman45]

Wow, TAM, that's a GREAT response. Thanks a bunch for sharing your experience. Sounds like we have about the same views. I'm just getting back into shooting/outdoors after having both hips replaced last year following several years of inabilty to do anything because of severe hip arthritis, so I absolutely get the weight thing. Love the M1A platform, but am TRYING to weed things down a bit to focus on PRACTICAL hardware. The RGS is definately on my list of guns to check out soon - right after I get the 308 semi. Kind of surprised at the weigh of your AR10 - what the heck are you running that's 15 pounds empty?? I grew up hunting with light rifles, so recoil doesn't bother me; was actually expecting that the AR platform would give me a lighter gun than my HK 91, which is part of the reason for my search.

[Longshot38]

The problem with large frame ARs and their weight comes from two big places, barrels and stocks. Most barrels made for them are HEAVY barrels with little contouring. And most people like things such as the PRS stocks (I know I do). These contribute to the pigs that become our large frame ARs. This is the case with mine and from what I have seen of TAMs rifle the same can be said. However weight can be saved if one runs an A2 style stock and has the barrel recontoured.

[Jumping Frog]

The new Colt LE901 modular carbine is quite intriguing, about 9 lbs empty, 10.5 with scope, and $2100.

Pretty easy to google some reviews.

[The Annoyed Man]

Wow, TAM, that's a GREAT response. Thanks a bunch for sharing your experience. Sounds like we have about the same views. I'm just getting back into shooting/outdoors after having both hips replaced last year following several years of inabilty to do anything because of severe hip arthritis, so I absolutely get the weight thing. Love the M1A platform, but am TRYING to weed things down a bit to focus on PRACTICAL hardware. The RGS is definately on my list of guns to check out soon - right after I get the 308 semi. Kind of surprised at the weigh of your AR10 - what the heck are you running that's 15 pounds empty?? I grew up hunting with light rifles, so recoil doesn't bother me; was actually expecting that the AR platform would give me a lighter gun than my HK 91, which is part of the reason for my search.

See what Longshot38 said below:

The problem with large frame ARs and their weight comes from two big places, barrels and stocks. Most barrels made for them are HEAVY barrels with little contouring. And most people like things such as the PRS stocks (I know I do). These contribute to the pigs that become our large frame ARs. This is the case with mine and from what I have seen of TAMs rifle the same can be said. However weight can be saved if one runs an A2 style stock and has the barrel recontoured.

He hit the nail right on the head. My AR10 has the following items which add weight to it:

• 18" Noveske "N6" heavy profile barrel (1:10 twist, polygonal rifling)
• Magpul PRS stock with monopod attached
• Full-length Troy Battle Rail
• Target type grip with palm shelf
• 5-20x50mm SS scope on a BOPRO QD mount.

Yes, I could easily lop a few pounds off that rifle by ditching those items and replacing them with carbine-intended componenents, but even so, it would still likely weigh a bit more than a similarly sized M1A, for instance. When I was AR10 shopping, I had a chance to handle one that a guy was selling, and it was essentially a scaled-up M4 made by DPMS, with the basic cheap collapsible 6 position stock. It had a lighter weight barrel with an A2 type front sight and a magpul rear flip up sight. There was no optic included. In other words, it was basically a somewhat larger M4 carbine chambered in .308, and without a magazine, it weighed 9.5 lb. The RGS beats that by 2.5 lb. I just checked the DPMS website, and the lightest .308 16" barreled carbines they sell start out at 8.5 lb, or about the same as a synthetic stocked M1A of standard barrel length (22").

Don't get me wrong.....I really like my AR10. It's a really special rifle, and I've got about $4,700 in it. It's just that I don't have that much use for it in the real world, other than as a target rifle (which is what I use it for). If I owned a large piece of land with a hill on it, and I wanted to dig an LP/OP on the military crest of it and leave an overwatch weapon up there for repelling invaders at 1,000 yards, it would be perfect for that too. But it is too big and heavy to hunt with, and too big and impractical to use as a CQB weapon. Rifles like AR15 carbines, AK47/74s, M1A Scouts, the Ruger Gunsite Scout (or other similar lightweight short-barreled bolt action carbine), and perhaps a stripped-down light-weight AR10 all are just more practical choices as an all-around do-all rifle.

I like the AR15 platform a lot, and I think—because it is sort of an "American standard" weapon system—that all households ought to have one.....in the spirit of "a well regulated milita being necessary to the security of a free state." And you can do an awful lot with one, from feeding yourself to protecting yourself to amusing yourself. But it has a limited effective range compared to a .308, and I also believe (in the same spirit of militia) that every household ought to have a rifle chambered in that caliber too. As I get older and gimpier, more and more I favor something lightweight and easy to carry. The RGS fits that bill for me. And if I had to limit myself to just one rifle and one handgun, I'd pick a .308 bolt rifle and a pistol in .45 ACP. Fortunately, I don't have to do that.

BTW, if you have your heart set on a AR10 (and I'm not trying to talk you out of getting one), take whatever Longshot38 tells you about them under advisement. He's got more experience with them than I do.

[bagman45]

Thanks all! Looks like I'll have to try to hit a few shops this weekend to look at the POF and DMPS again. Still intriuged by the Sig 716 - seems like a better quality version of the DPMS, but cheaper (and a bit lower overall quality) than the POF. Any final thoughts on the 716/Sig rifles? Cheers!

[The Annoyed Man]

Thanks all! Looks like I'll have to try to hit a few shops this weekend to look at the POF and DMPS again. Still intriuged by the Sig 716 - seems like a better quality version of the DPMS, but cheaper (and a bit lower overall quality) than the POF. Any final thoughts on the 716/Sig rifles? Cheers!

I don't know anything about POF, but the Sig 716 is a gas-piston system, which ought to improve reliability. It weighs 9.3 lb in "Patrol Rifle" configuration. The POF patrol rifle weighs 8.6 lb.

By the way.... just to throw a wrench in the works, have you considered a FAL or a HK/PTR-91? http://www.onesourcetactical.com/ptr91g ... JMNYWl24p8

[JeepGuy79]

You have a hk91 and a remington 700 and you want something more customizable? Say what? Dude you cannot even dream the silly stuff that you could do with that 91. Make a PSG1 clone, a MSG-90 clone, G3SG1,G3k, hk51, hk21e beltfed, etc... I am about to build an hk51 cause I for some reason need a 8" 308... The rem 700 has some of the best integral suppressed barrels available. personally I like the m24e with a good can and some subsonics.

you have my 2 fave 308 platforms. Don't go to the AR10 darkside now.

[bagman45]

Hey JeepGuy, Thanks for your thoughts. I guess I am pretty spoiled. Lusted after the HK91 for quite a while before I found the right deal on one, and do love it. But, switching between the HK and my AR's sometimes causes my old brain to confuse the manual of arms when firing them under tactical training or fast-moving hunting pressure (which would be worse if someone were actually shooting back), and I like the AR ergonomics better. Also like the variety of standard pic-rail accessories/tools that will fit the AR platform (good mounts for the HK platform are NOT common or cheap).

The 700 is a different story, as I grew up hunting squirrels with a bolt action .22, and it's mechanics are so ingrained in my muscle memory that I don't even have to think about how to aqcuire the target, fire, work the bolt, etc; it's just built in. Guess it's most certainly true that we should all fear the man who has only one gun, 'cause he's likely REALLY good at using it... That said, the bolt gun has it's place as a precision distance tool, but the semi is way faster than the bolt for follow-up action (like a bunch of hogs).

SO, it's time to try an AR pattern piston .308 to see which semi platform I want to standardize on. Happy to have you educate me futher on the HK platform, as I'm far from an expert on the options!! Pretty much a noob actually......

[psijac]

Some users are making lower receivers that will accept magpul and sr-25 mags for the FN SCAR

[AdioSS]

So, if you had to choose between a 16.5" barrel & a 20" barrel for a .308, which would you go with & why?