DPMS Panther Oracle - Opinions

[ShaneHD]

My father's 50th birthday is about a month away. Since buying my Bushmaster ORC AR15, he wants his own AR15. Starting tomorrow, Cabelas here locally has the DPMS Panther Oracle on sale for $629. I was thinking about getting him one for his birthday.

How is this gun? Need opinions, suggestions, comments. Obviously he will be adding his own accessories to it (quad rail, stock, etc) but I wanted to get him started on it with the gun.

Thanks in advance!

[10mmillie]

DPMS makes a good rifle. I've owned several over the years and never had a failure of any kind. That should make him very happy on his birthday.

[carlson1]

Which one would be the better deal? Buds's or Cabella's?

http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/prod ... s_id/61617" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Or a Bushmaster also at Bud's. Prices are shipped.

http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/prod ... s_id/69657" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[jmra]

I went with a new frontier poly lower (LW15 - $99 plus tax) and a DPMS oracle upper from midway for $373 plus shipping. Total cost after tax and shipping = $495. That puts me $190 under the after tax price of Cabela's deal.

I haven't received the upper yet (on back order) but I put my other DPMS upper on the LW15 lower and was impressed. Much tighter fit than the matched DPMS upper and lower.

At $495 each I might have to get one for each member of the family.

Of course I assume that the Cabela's deal comes with a case and 2 mags. I don't put too much value on the case as the factory case is useless and I can get the mags for $10 each. So, I guess I should put the difference more at $175.

[cubbyjg]

I bought one as my first AR and it has been good to me. Only problem now is all my accessories cost more than the gun. You will read mixed reviews on the internet about DPMS. I think they make a quality product for an entry level AR15. I paid about the same amount your Cabela's has it but got it from buds. So really, it just depends on how much your FFL fee is versus the amount of tax you will have to pay.

I havent had any malfunctions with the weapon and it has helped me get real comfortable with the AR15 platform.

[cajunautoxer]

I've heard good things about the PSA rifles. You can get the upper shipped to you and buy a lower local. You can go with one of the PlumCrazy for less than $150 or look around and see what else others are offering

[ShaneHD]

Called around noon today. Cabelas was sold out with a line this morning on the DPMS. Damn!

[ShaneHD]

Now I need a comparison. Cabela's this Oracle and the Sig Sauer M400 instock right now. The Sig is $1099. The Oracle is $629. Price aside....which is the better rifle?

[MoJo]

SIG but, a lot of accessories for it are high priced and it isn't an AR so parts will be a problem if that's important to you.

[ShaneHD]

Can I fire 223 through the Sig? I see it's chambered for 556, but read you can also shoot 223 through.....but not the other way around if it's only chambered for 223.

If you could buy the DPMS or Sig today....which would you choose? I already have the Bushmaster ORC 223/556...but wanted to get something else to share with my dad. What accessories are you talking about cost more on the Sig?

[Keith B]

Can I fire 223 through the Sig? I see it's chambered for 556, but read you can also shoot 223 through.....but not the other way around if it's only chambered for 223.

If you could buy the DPMS or Sig today....which would you choose? I already have the Bushmaster ORC 223/556...but wanted to get something else to share with my dad. What accessories are you talking about cost more on the Sig?

From http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=41770" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The significant difference between the .223 Rem and 5.56 NATO lies in the rifles, rather than the cartridges themselves. Both the .223 and 5.56 rounds will chamber in rifles designed for either cartridge, but the critical component, leade, will be different in each rifle.

The leade is the area of the barrel in front of the chamber prior to where the rifling begins. This is where the loaded bullet is located when a cartridge is chambered. The leade is frequently called the “throat.”

On a .223 Remington spec rifle, the leade will be 0.085”. This is the standard described by the Sporting Arms and Ammunition Manufacturers’ Institute, Inc. (SAAMI). The leade in a 5.56 NATO spec rifle is 0.162”, or almost double the leade of the .223 rifle.

A shorter leade in a SAAMI spec rifle creates a situation where the bullet in a 5.56 NATO round, when chambered, can contact the rifling prior to being fired. By having contact with the rifling prematurely (at the moment of firing), chamber pressure can be dramatically increased, creating the danger of a ruptured case or other cartridge/gun failure.

So, unless your gun is specicially designed to shoot the 5.56 NATO round, then stick with .223 rounds only. If chamberd for 5.56, then you can shoot either.

[OldCannon]

So, unless your gun is specicially designed to shoot the 5.56 NATO round, then stick with .223 rounds only. If chamberd for 5.56, then you can shoot either.

This is why I tell people, "Never buy a .223 rifle." Of course, the truth is that you're never likely to see problems feeding 5.56mm into a .223, although I don't want to be around when that one-in-a-million chance happens.

[The Annoyed Man]

Can I fire 223 through the Sig? I see it's chambered for 556, but read you can also shoot 223 through.....but not the other way around if it's only chambered for 223.

If you could buy the DPMS or Sig today....which would you choose? I already have the Bushmaster ORC 223/556...but wanted to get something else to share with my dad. What accessories are you talking about cost more on the Sig?

From http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=41770" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The significant difference between the .223 Rem and 5.56 NATO lies in the rifles, rather than the cartridges themselves. Both the .223 and 5.56 rounds will chamber in rifles designed for either cartridge, but the critical component, leade, will be different in each rifle.

The leade is the area of the barrel in front of the chamber prior to where the rifling begins. This is where the loaded bullet is located when a cartridge is chambered. The leade is frequently called the “throat.”

On a .223 Remington spec rifle, the leade will be 0.085”. This is the standard described by the Sporting Arms and Ammunition Manufacturers’ Institute, Inc. (SAAMI). The leade in a 5.56 NATO spec rifle is 0.162”, or almost double the leade of the .223 rifle.

A shorter leade in a SAAMI spec rifle creates a situation where the bullet in a 5.56 NATO round, when chambered, can contact the rifling prior to being fired. By having contact with the rifling prematurely (at the moment of firing), chamber pressure can be dramatically increased, creating the danger of a ruptured case or other cartridge/gun failure.

So, unless your gun is specicially designed to shoot the 5.56 NATO round, then stick with .223 rounds only. If chamberd for 5.56, then you can shoot either.

.....Unless you have a "Wylde" chambered weapon, which is neither, but designed to shoot both. Just trying to muddy up the waters a bit.

Regarding the DPMS Panther Arms Oracle, DPMS makes good stuff—despite what name-brand fan-boys say. My only "objection" to this particular carbine is the pencil barrel. I'm not really a fan of those. Give me a M4 profile or a HBAR every time. The .223 cartridge may be for all practical purposes a varmint cartridge, but the .223(5.56)/AR15 combination is one of those happy accidents that are rare in history—a light recoiling cartridge of sufficient power, with the trajectory of a laser beam at close to medium ranges, in a sweet shooting and inherently accurate rifle platform. Their website says that the unloaded weight of the carbine is 6.3 lbs. Add maybe .5 to .75 lbs for a heavier barrel, and you've still got a very handy, not very heavy carbine of superb accuracy. Why handicap it with a pencil barrel? To my mind, the weight savings isn't worth the accuracy tradeoff. Also, some of the weight savings they gained by using a pencil barrel was traded away by adding a larger, heavier gas block which requires an aftermarket front sight to be mounted to it. If basic simplicity and weight reduction is what they were after, it would have made far more sense to simply use the standard A2 front sight post on a standard gasblock. If the ability to mount a scope (which would have been possible on any A4 receiver) was the goal, for the purposes of accurate shooting, why handicap the the rifle with the lighter barrel?

As far as reliability and "fun-to-shootness" goes, this would be a good carbine choice.....but then so would a Mini-14, if that's all you were after. But this particular configuration of AR15 is not one that makes any particular sense to me—particularly when you can have an AR15 that is more "mission capable" for roughy the same price. But that's just me.

[OldCannon]

why handicap the the rifle with the lighter barrel?

Inexpensive sights: http://store.magpul.com/prod_detail_list/44" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Presto -- cheap (but "accurate enough") trunk gun!

[MoJoeWrkn]

I have one and have been very happy with it. No malfunctions or issues. I paid $650 for mine but it came with a red dot sight.