needin help choosing a rifle/caliber

[The Annoyed Man]

I bought a Savage .270 about 12 years ago that had a stock scope on it and it remains dialed in. Now if I could only find the deer to dial into....

See, now if you had spent more money, you'd be properly motivated to go where the deer are.

[Beiruty]

I heard great things about Thomson Center Venture. It retails less than $499. You may have to check it.

[pbwalker]

well i went around to a few shops walmart and academy and held a remington 700, very nice, no scope for under $350 (i forgot the exact price. i also held a weatherby which i beleive was the bottom end weatherby and the guy behind the counter told me their is not a lot of aftermarket for weatherby which turned me off to WBY. then i went to walmart and held a savage with scope for $369 3-9X40?, i like the fact that the savage already has a scope VS getting the remington 700 and having to add a scope but from what ive read on this forum factory scopes are nothing to brag about. i dont mind getting a remington 700 then adding a scope. which way would you go? im not sure exactly what "accutrigger" and free float barrel means eigther....

most rifles are eigther 22" or 24" does the extra 2" make any difference? id rather have the 24" as i would imagine it would be more accurate.


remington 700(no scope) VS savage with scope? both under $370
both synthetic stocks i saw a remington wooden 700 for 569$ i tihnk ill stick with the synthetic.


thanks in advance....
G27

You can't beat a Remington 700 IMO. Rock solid rifles that don't cost a fortune. I'm a big fan...and happy owner.

I'm not 100% up on the actual innards of the 'AccuTrigger' and what the benefits are to be honest. Apparently though, the Marlin XL7 .270 I've got takes the "best of the Remington 700 and the AccuTrigger design of Savage..." or so they say. I love the XL7 and it's my deer rifle. One of the best triggers I have ever handled. They went on clearance at Academy for $269 one week back in April I believe. I snagged one and have been happy ever since. If you stumble across one, I'd recommend checking it out.

As for glass, I'm still in that "buy just enough, I'm not a sniper" budget and mindset. I have a Nikon ProStaff BDC on my XL7 and a Bushnell Banner Dusk and Dawn. The Banner is about as low budget as I will go on a scope. ($99). I know I should get better, but I still have a hard time digesting $250 for a scope when I can usually get a gun at that point. As long as I can hit the bread basket on a deer, I'm happy. If I have to re-zero twice a year, that's fine.

For barrels, I always go with the longest...personal preference. I'm sure the 22's would work for what I need (~100 yard shot).

AccuTrigger: http://www.savagearms.com/accuracy/accutrigger/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

For stock, I love the look and feel of wood. But I don't like the price tag, and I'd be worried about keeping it clean all the time and I'd never use it.

[G.A. Heath]

Lets talk about scopes for a moment. Choosing the right scope is just as important as choosing the right gun and caliber. You really don't want a 9-16 power scope on a large game hunting rifle, and you probably don't want a 1-4 power scope on a varmint rifle. For large game you really want as low a power as possible to ensure that you quickly acquire your target rather than hunt for it with the scope. In an ideal world a one power scope will be ideal, but if you think that you will be taking game at a distance then you may want a 1-4 power variable scope. When using a variable scope I would suggest keeping it dialed in on the lowest setting as that will be the quickest for finding a target up close, if the target is further away you will in most cases have plenty of time to dial the magnification up before the opportunity is missed. Now lets look at what the meaning of 3-9x40 or 4x40. The first part (3-9 or 4) tells you the magnification range. The lowest power will be first followed with a dash and the highest power (if applicable) will follow that. The second portion (x40) will tell you what the bell size is. The larger the bell the more light the scope can gather and the brighter it will look, it will also help in selecting your scope rings to ensure you get rings that are tall enough to let the bell clear. Speaking of light gathering the larger the diameter of the tube, the brighter the image in the scope will look as well, and your rings will have to fit the tube diameter.

[The Annoyed Man]

well i went around to a few shops walmart and academy and held a remington 700, very nice, no scope for under $350 (i forgot the exact price. i also held a weatherby which i beleive was the bottom end weatherby and the guy behind the counter told me their is not a lot of aftermarket for weatherby which turned me off to WBY. then i went to walmart and held a savage with scope for $369 3-9X40?, i like the fact that the savage already has a scope VS getting the remington 700 and having to add a scope but from what ive read on this forum factory scopes are nothing to brag about. i dont mind getting a remington 700 then adding a scope. which way would you go? im not sure exactly what "accutrigger" and free float barrel means eigther....

most rifles are eigther 22" or 24" does the extra 2" make any difference? id rather have the 24" as i would imagine it would be more accurate.

remington 700(no scope) VS savage with scope? both under $370
both synthetic stocks i saw a remington wooden 700 for 569$ i tihnk ill stick with the synthetic.

thanks in advance....
G27

I'll address these things individually, based on our experience with having both a Remington 700 and a Savage 10FP in the safe...

Accutrigger:

• The Accutrigger system on Savage rifles is an adjustable trigger system with a built in safety device. The trigger has a "blade" articulated into the trigger face. Picture the trigger on a Glock pistol. Unless the little doohickey on the Glock trigger is pulled back into the trigger, the trigger in turn cannot be pulled to its breaking point. That is how the blade on the Accutrigger functions. The trigger will not fire until the blade is pulled back into the trigger itself. That's the best way I can describe it.
  
  This blade also has the effect of making the trigger feel like a two stage trigger, with a light takeup, and a definite point where it will break. Thus, the trigger pull weight can be set fairly light from the factory, and it can be lightened further yet by the owner, if that's what you want. My son's rifle - a Savage 10FP HS Precision "tactical" rifle in .308 - is extremely accurate and the trigger is light enough from the factory that he felt no need to lighten it further. I have shot this rifle, and the trigger system works as advertised, but having shot traditional trigger systems for years, it took me a little while to get used to the feel of that "blade" in the Savage trigger. I would not let this stop me from purchasing one.

22" vs 24" barrels:

• Longer barrels do NOT add to accuracy. I have a very accurate Remington 700 VSF in .308, and it has a 26" barrel. My son's equally accurate Savage has a 24" barrel.
  
  The length is not what makes it an accurate barrel. The diameter is the dimension that makes it accurate. This is why all varmint/sniper type rifles have fat barrels, regardless of the barrel length. Fatter barrels vibrate less than thinner barrels, thus there is less deviation off the bore axis at the muzzle at the very moment that the bullet exits the muzzle as the muzzle "whips" back and forth under vibration. In fact, the trend in modern sniper rifles is toward shorter barrels, because a short fat barrel vibrates still less amplitude than a long fat barrel. For the sniper in the field, this translates to a lighter rifle.
  
  The barrel's length can have two effects on the ballistics. One effect relates to bullet velocity. Most gunpowders are still burning when the bullet exits the barrel - which contributes to muzzle flash. Given the same cartridge in two otherwise identical rifles of differing barrel lengths, the velocity of the bullet exiting the longer barrel will be higher than the velocity of the bullet exiting the shorter barrel. This is due to powder burn time. The more time inside the barrel for powder to burn, the more velocity can be built up along the bore before the bullet exits the barrel. The higher the muzzle velocity, the greater the range of the rifle/cartridge combination. Modern sniper rifles with shorter barrels depend on cartridges with faster burning powders to make up the velocity loss due to barrel length, and to reduce muzzle flash which is a tactical liability.
  
  The second, and for the most part less important, effect is that of bullet stability. Theoretically, the more bore a barrel has, the more stabilized the bullet will be by the time it exits the barrel. Practically though, this is a non issue.

Free-floated barrels:

• This one is simple. In general, a rifle with a free-floated barrel will be more accurate than one that isn't. Free floating means that the only place at which the barrel touches the rest of the rifle is at the point where it is joined to the action. When the barrel is free floated, there is no pressure being exerted by the barrel channel on any part of the barrel itself, which can affect barrel harmonics and throw off the bullet's point of impact.

Synthetic Vs Wood stocks:

• Wood is prettier. Synthetic is more stable and resistant to the elements. I'm a guy who admires form that follows function, so I like synthetic stocks.

Savage VS Remington:

• They both make excellent rifles. I prefer my Remington. My son prefers his Savage. Good luck with that.

I hope this helps.

[ttn539]

the guy behind the counter told me their is not a lot of aftermarket for weatherby which turned me off to WBY. then i went to walmart and held a savage with scope for $369 3-9X40?, i like the fact that the savage already has a scope

the weatherby ain't bad. I bought one in 308 and its hard to beat for a guranteed 1.5 MOA. what aftermarket stuff are u looking for? ive found nice stuff for it on amazon. btw, the scope on the savage is probably on the low end aint not worth buying in the bundle.

[UpTheIrons]

The length is not what makes it an accurate barrel. The diameter is the dimension that makes it accurate. This is why all varmint/sniper type rifles have fat barrels, regardless of the barrel length. Fatter barrels vibrate less than thinner barrels, thus there is less deviation off the bore axis at the muzzle at the very moment that the bullet exits the muzzle as the muzzle "whips" back and forth under vibration. In fact, the trend in modern sniper rifles is toward shorter barrels, because a short fat barrel vibrates still less amplitude than a long fat barrel. For the sniper in the field, this translates to a lighter rifle.

This.

I read an article in the Dillon Press several months (a year?) ago about both a bolt and semi-auto that had 18" barrels and were very accurate out to over 600 yards. IIRC, the author shot to 900 yards with these "short" barrels and scored repeated hits with both types of actions. Although short, they were bull barrels, which lent to their accuracy, even at shorter length.

[WildBill]

I choose the .308 Win over the 30-06. My choice for the rifle is the Remington 700.

The .308 Win has ballistics that are very close to the 30-06.
The .308 Win equals or surpasses the accurary of the 30-06.
The .308 Win has a shorter bolt throw than the 30-06.
The .308 Win shoots 7.62×51mm NATO so the availability of ammo is assured for many years.
The .308 Win has a greater variety of bullet choices.

IMO, the Remington 700 equals or surpasses the Savage or Ruger in function, quality, machining and aesthetics. The Remington 700 has a good selection of options for barrel lengths and styles as well as choices for different stocks.

BTW, I am prejudice. Can you guess what I own?

[ttn539]

I choose the .308 Win over the 30-06. My choice for the rifle is the Remington 700.

The .308 Win has ballistics that are very close to the 30-06.
The .308 Win equals or surpasses the accurary of the 30-06.
The .308 Win has a shorter bolt throw than the 30-06.
The .308 Win shoots 7.62×51mm NATO so the availability of ammo is assured for many years.
The .308 Win has a greater variety of bullet choices.

IMO, the Remington 700 equals or surpasses the Savage or Ruger in function, quality, machining and aesthetics. The Remington 700 has a good selection of options for barrel lengths and styles as well as choices for different stocks.

BTW, I am prejudice. Can you guess what I own?

thats exactly why we chose the 308 in the military, oorah =].

[BigAl1410]

I just got a Robinson Armament XCR-L in 7.62x39, 16" barrel and folding stock. http://www.robarm.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I put an Aimpoint T-1 red dot sight on it, which has many advantages over a scope. It is really sweet. It is built on the AK-47 model. It will fire any ammo, including Brown/Silver Bear and Wolf with no trouble.

I attended a John Farnam Defense Training International, Inc 2 day class Oct. 16/17, 2010. I was surprised at how well I could handle it. It runs very well with no stoppages or problems.

I am 75 years old, have COPD but could handle that XCR well. With that Aimpoint sight, it was a breeze to fire. Keep both eyes open.

Buy the best you can afford even if you have to scrape the barrel and stretch.

As for me, I do not want a bolt or lever action rifle. I can fire multiple shots with my XCR while you are operating the bolt or lever. I sure would not want them for defensive purposes.

It is awesome and will handle a lot of game like deer, feral hogs, etc. I do not know how it would work for bear and I do not plan to find out. Seems to me that it is the best of both worlds, defense and hunting game.

I know others will have different opinions, but that is my experience.

[Beiruty]

How much you paid for your RA XCR-L?

[jyatesmp]

I ordered mine through GT Distributors and it was just over $1800 + tax. Had I had it to do over I would have gone through Robinson Arms and had them ship it to a FFL dealer (most will do transfers for $10 or so). The price for the gun will be about the same, but you will save the taxes because RA is not in Texas. I am still waiting for mine to arrive, but can post up a range report if anyone wants.

[Salty1]

The 308 and 30.06 are virtually a toss up as far as performance is concerned. I went with the 30.06 because of the ammo availability and the different ammo options. 30.06 can be purchased almost anywhere because if it's popularity. NATO ammo is good for target shooting but does not have much use in hunting so that was never a consideration.

I was in the same situation a year ago, I ended up with a Tikka T-3 with synthetic and stainless and put a higher end Leupold scope on it and am very pleased with the decision and performance. I was not looking for the most inexpensive way out, I wanted to put together a high quality rifle that would last a lifetime and take down anything that I would potentially hunt. I have around $1100 into the rifle and is as close to perfect for me as I could get. Next to the trigger on a hunting rifle, you do need a quality scope the differences in scopes is amazing...



Cartridge (Wb + type) MV (fps) V @ 200 yds ME (ft lb) E @ 200 yds
308 Win. (150 Sp) 2820 2288 2648 1744
308 Win. (165 BTSP) 2685 2264 2641 1878
.308 Win. (180 Sp) 2620 2198 2743 1930
.30-06 Spfd. (150 Sp) 2910 2342 2820 1827
.30-06 Spfd. (165 PSP) 2800 2283 2872 1909
.30-06 Spfd. (180 Sp) 2700 2023 2913 1635