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7 killed, and 7 injured. I can’t even remember the last time a B-17 crashed.

I heard about this on the radio yesterday. They were saying that they might stop allowing people to pay for rides on these old bombers. Apparently they are old and may be prone to failures.

I remember landing in Memphis back in the mid-'70s and seeing the B-17, "Memphis Belle", off to the side of the landing runway. No, I didn't ask for a ride.

We all gotta go sometime, might as well be while doing something you love or enjoy doing? My condolences to the family's of the lost lives.

03Lightningrocks wrote: ↑Thu Oct 03, 2019 7:50 pm I heard about this on the radio yesterday. They were saying that they might stop allowing people to pay for rides on these old bombers. Apparently they are old and may be prone to failures.

Just what we need.... Government deciding what I'm allowed to do... What risks I'm permitted to take.

Condolences to all those affected by this tragedy.

03Lightningrocks wrote: ↑Thu Oct 03, 2019 7:50 pm I heard about this on the radio yesterday. They were saying that they might stop allowing people to pay for rides on these old bombers. Apparently they are old and may be prone to failures.

Seems they are safer than some new planes... Auto pilot "software patch" ring any bells? Certainly safer than the duck boats and other things people pay to ride.

flechero wrote: ↑Fri Oct 04, 2019 8:51 am

03Lightningrocks wrote: ↑Thu Oct 03, 2019 7:50 pm I heard about this on the radio yesterday. They were saying that they might stop allowing people to pay for rides on these old bombers. Apparently they are old and may be prone to failures.

Seems they are safer than some new planes... Auto pilot "software patch" ring any bells? Certainly safer than the duck boats and other things people pay to ride.

I have no doubt that, properly maintained, the remaining B-17s will be able to keep flying for another generation. I’m not only saddened by the deaths of those who perished, but also by the loss of this magnificent aircraft, which served the country so ably in its time of need. There are too few of these legendary aircraft from WW2 left … and not just the B-17s, but also the P-51s, and P-47s, and F4-U Corsairs, and Spitfires, and P-38s, and ME-109s, and FW-190s, Zeros, etc, etc.

They represent, NOT just a cataclysmic war, but also a sort of pinnacle of science and engineering from that age. One of the things that has always fascinated me about firearms is just how representative they are of the science and technology of the ages in which they originated. An M16 tells an entirely different story about the state of science and technology when it was invented, when compared to the story told by a M1903-A3 Springfield. And when you delve into the science and technology of a given age that way, you also learn about social forces acting on that era, and how those forces drove the technological advancements, and then how individual people interacted with both those social forces and with technologies. In other words, guns are windows into history.

I see aircraft that same way. In just 4 years, mankind went from relatively primitive aircraft like the B-17 and the P-40 Tomahawk, to the MUCH more sophisticated B-29 and first generation jets. 4 years. That’s not much time. We went from fighting with bolt action rifles to dropping atomic bombs in that 4 years. The Germans went from bolt action rifles to suborbital ballistic missiles. The brutal necessities of war rapidly accelerated advancements in technologies that still affect us today. If Germany had not designed and put into use the STG-44, how long would it have taken for Kalashnikov to design the AK47, or for Stoner to design the AR10/15?

So whenever one of these magnificent old warbirds is destroyed or otherwise grounded, we lose a strand in the connection to our technological past; and with the eventual loss of that technological connection, we lose a connection to the history that drove it, and to the lessons of that history. It’s why Civil War and Revolutionary War re-enactors provide a valuable service to our society. They maintain a connection with and a respect for our history AND its lessons.

I didn’t start out to go on this long about it, but you guys know me..... Anyway, I was moved by this story, and not just because of the loss of life, but also because of the loss of a strand in the connection to our shared past.

I saw that B-17 last year when the Collins Foundation visited the airport near New Braunfels. I would really like to fly on one of them, but it was a pretty pricey ride. Sad for the loss of life and the loss of the airframe.

And no, the gummint doesn't need to ban rides in old airplanes, for cryin' out loud.

Oldgringo wrote: ↑Thu Oct 03, 2019 9:42 pm I remember landing in Memphis back in the mid-'70s and seeing the B-17, "Memphis Belle", off to the side of the landing runway. No, I didn't ask for a ride.

I don't want to take too much away from the primary story, it is indeed a heartbreaking loss. However, the Memphis Belle was allowed by the City of Memphis to deteriorate pretty badly. It was "repossessed" some time back by the Air Force Museum at Wright-Patterson AFB in Ohio, and subsequently restored. It will never fly again, but it will be kept in proper order for the untold thousands who visit that museum each year.

K.Mooneyham wrote: ↑Fri Oct 04, 2019 11:05 am

Oldgringo wrote: ↑Thu Oct 03, 2019 9:42 pm I remember landing in Memphis back in the mid-'70s and seeing the B-17, "Memphis Belle", off to the side of the landing runway. No, I didn't ask for a ride.

I don't want to take too much away from the primary story, it is indeed a heartbreaking loss. However, the Memphis Belle was allowed by the City of Memphis to deteriorate pretty badly. It was "repossessed" some time back by the Air Force Museum at Wright-Patterson AFB in Ohio, and subsequently restored. It will never fly again, but it will be kept in proper order for the untold thousands who visit that museum each year.

This is sad. I’ve never ridden in one, but I’ve stood fairly close by while both a B-17 and a B-24 were starting up their engines at the same time for one of these paid for flights, at Burbank Airport. The clatter and belching fire and smoke was pretty impressive. It sounded like about a 100 ancient Jurassic-sized Harley motorcycles starting up all at once, only with a little more Tabasco thrown in. But once the engines caught and warmed up, they were pretty smooth sounding. It’s remarkable that people went up in those things, mission after mission after mission, with such a high attrition and mortality rate, and then they continued to still climb into them. That took stones the size of boxcars.

These aircraft deserve better than the neglect given the Memphis Belle.

There are a few great organizations out there preserving these old war birds and their history.

The Commemorative Air Force (CAF)

The Commemorative Air Force® (CAF) was founded to preserve history by restoring historic World War II aircraft back to flying condition and to educate new generations of Americans on the value of military aviation in assuring our nation’s freedom. These airplanes, and the men and women who built, flew and maintained them – changed the world forever! We can never let them be forgotten.

https://commemorativeairforce.org/

The Annoyed Man wrote: ↑Fri Oct 04, 2019 12:18 pm It’s remarkable that people went up in those things, mission after mission after mission, with such a high attrition and mortality rate, and then they continued to still climb into them. That took stones the size of boxcars.

These aircraft deserve better than the neglect given the Memphis Belle.

My Dad did it 30 times in a B24. He was the bombardier. You can read about his missions at this site maintained by the son of his radio operator:

https://aradiomanslog.weebly.com/diary.html

dhoobler wrote: ↑Fri Oct 04, 2019 1:42 pm

The Annoyed Man wrote: ↑Fri Oct 04, 2019 12:18 pm It’s remarkable that people went up in those things, mission after mission after mission, with such a high attrition and mortality rate, and then they continued to still climb into them. That took stones the size of boxcars.

These aircraft deserve better than the neglect given the Memphis Belle.

My Dad did it 30 times in a B24. He was the bombardier. You can read about his missions at this site maintained by the son of his radio operator:

https://aradiomanslog.weebly.com/diary.html

That was a great read. Thanks for the link.

There is a B-17 up in Conroe https://www.b17texasraiders.org/

I took a couple of pics of a B-17 plus some other old warbirds back in 2005, at the Edwards AFB Air Show....















I also ran across this article: Flight test: F4U-5NL Corsair.