VFW & Guns

[Commander Cody]

Well I was just reading another thread and rather than hi-jack I’ll post another.
Scenario: In the thread I was reading everyone seems to agree (or not) on who can and who can’t carry. Ones that can carry included the owner(s). In the VFW all of the members are owners. The hall is legally posted as a 51% establishment. All of the members could be considered as in control of the property. But could they legally carry? I think not.

[C-dub]

In the VFW all of the members are owners. The hall is legally posted as a 51% establishment.

This might boil down to who can make decisions regarding the business of the place. If this is still everyone, then everyone might be able to carry.

Are you positive about the 51% establishment? This is basically a private club not open to the public, right? I don't know what the law is pertaining to this type of establishment for purposes of CHL.

[Commander Cody]

All decisions regarding the business of the place are brought to a vote during our meetings. It is a 51% establishment as we make the majority of our money from beer and wine sales. It is open to the public.

[C-dub]

All decisions regarding the business of the place are brought to a vote during our meetings. It is a 51% establishment as we make the majority of our money from beer and wine sales. It is open to the public.

Interesting. I didn't know they were open to the public.

Now, as for who has control and can carry, I have no idea in this situation, but it sounds like a HUGE gray area.

[Commander Cody]

All decisions regarding the business of the place are brought to a vote during our meetings. It is a 51% establishment as we make the majority of our money from beer and wine sales. It is open to the public.

Interesting. I didn't know they were open to the public.

Now, as for who has control and can carry, I have no idea in this situation, but it sounds like a HUGE gray area.

That's what I'm thinking... HUGE gray area.

[C-dub]

All decisions regarding the business of the place are brought to a vote during our meetings. It is a 51% establishment as we make the majority of our money from beer and wine sales. It is open to the public.

Interesting. I didn't know they were open to the public.

Now, as for who has control and can carry, I have no idea in this situation, but it sounds like a HUGE gray area.

That's what I'm thinking... HUGE gray area.

I do think that it would be limited to those working at the time.

[MasterOfNone]

It would be hard to argue that all members are in control. Though they have a vote, they do not direct the day-to-day operation. Does a member have any kind of authority over the place while it's open?
This seems like saying each shareholder of a company is in control of the company's property. I wonder how much control a persona with a share of Google has at the Googleplex.

[Commander Cody]

C-dub

“I do think that it would be limited to those working at the time”.

None of us work while open for business. We hire a bartender to “run” the place.

MasterOfNone

“It would be hard to argue that all members are in control. Though they have a vote, they do not direct the day-to-day operation. Does a member have any kind of authority over the place while it's open?”

We only work in off hours, but we all, or all of us that want to participate, do direct the day-to-day operation. The authority while open is directed by the bartender with a telephone call to the local police department. That said, I don’t carry (I usually will have a beer or two while there, as do most of the members/owners, so I feel that we should not carry) or even want to participate in hair splitting arguments. I was just wondering about the legal aspect of such a situation.

[jimlongley]

When I was first going to the VFW where my brother in law is now Post Commander of, a prior PC was wandering around obviously open carrying. When I asked him, he cited being "in charge" as his validation. Not being a member, while I am a V I was never in a FW, I don't carry open there, but usually carry concealed.

Four years in the Navy during Vietnam and the only place I got shot at was in Brooklyn.

[Commander Cody]

When I was first going to the VFW where my brother in law is now Post Commander of, a prior PC was wandering around obviously open carrying. When I asked him, he cited being "in charge" as his validation. Not being a member, while I am a V I was never in a FW, I don't carry open there, but usually carry concealed.

Four years in the Navy during Vietnam and the only place I got shot at was in Brooklyn.

But was the prior PC actually “in charge?” I think probably not. Open carry is not the issue here although a good question as well. I don’t know what FW is. Thank you for your service. I know there is a lot of bull slinging about who did what, but none of us could have gotten along without each other.

[C-dub]

When I was first going to the VFW where my brother in law is now Post Commander of, a prior PC was wandering around obviously open carrying. When I asked him, he cited being "in charge" as his validation. Not being a member, while I am a V I was never in a FW, I don't carry open there, but usually carry concealed.

Four years in the Navy during Vietnam and the only place I got shot at was in Brooklyn.

But was the prior PC actually “in charge?” I think probably not. Open carry is not the issue here although a good question as well. I don’t know what FW is. Thank you for your service. I know there is a lot of bull slinging about who did what, but none of us could have gotten along without each other.

I think he meant a prior post commander, that was the post commander at the time he was there, but one where his BIL is currently the post commander.

The reason MasterofNone brought up is what I was thinking about. Since I don't know the command structure of a VFW I also thought it would be difficult to claim that everyone was in charge. At least for the purposes of this discussion. Now, with the knowledge of the the existence of a Post Commander, I think this person would be considered the one in charge. I would not say the bartender is in charge in this situation.

[Gunner21]

Not all VFW halls are posted 51%. For example, VFW Post that are inside a school zone.

[Commander Cody]

OK, I understand your reasoning, but the post commander is not present at all times when we are open for business. The post commander runs the show at our scheduled meetings, but other than that he is not present, or “in charge.” I wish a knowledgeable lawyer or LEO would step in and give a definitive explanation. I will not carry in any case do to the fact that consumption of any amount of alcohol should put carry out of the picture. IMHO

[MeMelYup]

Governing body, your answer is yes and no. The general population (members) elect the governing body (officers) who govern as the population wills. Hopefully.

[jimlongley]

I don’t know what FW is.

Think in terms of "VFW" and then remove the V - I am a V, but not of an FW.