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This might be an interesting topic for discussion. Comments please.

SALINAS, Calif.—A man convicted of fatally assaulting a panhandler who tried to wash his windshield at a Salinas gas station has been sentenced to three years of misdemeanor probation. Orion Christopher Moore of Santa Clara told a Monterey County judge on Wednesday that he struggled with "remorse" since the death of 64-year-old transient Harish Dinesh Davis.

Police say the 31-year-old Moore pushed Davis away from his BMW in December 2008 after Davis ignored requests to stop washing the car in exchange for money. Davis fell, hit his head on the pavement and died.

Moore had faced a possible five-year prison sentence after pleading no contest in June to assault with force likely to cause great bodily injury. He was initially charged with involuntary manslaughter.

WildBill wrote:This might be an interesting topic for discussion. Comments please.

SALINAS, Calif.—A man convicted of fatally assaulting a panhandler who tried to wash his windshield at a Salinas gas station has been sentenced to three years of misdemeanor probation. Orion Christopher Moore of Santa Clara told a Monterey County judge on Wednesday that he struggled with "remorse" since the death of 64-year-old transient Harish Dinesh Davis.

Police say the 31-year-old Moore pushed Davis away from his BMW in December 2008 after Davis ignored requests to stop washing the car in exchange for money. Davis fell, hit his head on the pavement and died.

Moore had faced a possible five-year prison sentence after pleading no contest in June to assault with force likely to cause great bodily injury. He was initially charged with involuntary manslaughter.

Not having been in the courtroom, I wonder how they got a charge such as "assault with force likely to cause great bodily injury" to fly if the guy simply pushed him away. Was he 6 inches taller, weighed 75 pounds more and "checked" him with a body-slam? This sounds more like an extremely unfortunate occurrence that merited basic assault charges only.

Again...not having been in the courtroom.

I think the issue is he plead 'no contest' to the event. I'd be willing to bet there is a little more to this than just one push. Even if not, I have seen cases where the person could have probably beaten the charge and been found not guilty with a good lawyer, but were talked into pleading no contest by the DA and/or their lawyer in an agreement of guaranteed probation vs. the uncertainty of potential jail time.

Why should there have been an altercation at all? Driving a BMW, let the guy wash the windows, hand him a $5 drive off. No complications. Maybe the BMW driver was having a bad day or only carried credit cards. Either way was no excuse for touching the panhandler. Just remember the old saying: but for the grace of God, that could be me (trying to wash car windows for money) Reminds of a day I pulled into a service station and a guy came up to my window and said he was traveling from up north and had run out of gasoline. He had some tools he was trying to sell and some electrical stuff he said he was an electrician. I gave him $20.00 , told him I had no need for the tools or other stuff and wished him good luck. Could have been a scam but he did have out of state tags on the vehicle he was getting the stuff out of and he was dressed neatly, didn't smell of alcohol, clean shaven, etc. Another time there was a raggedy looking gentleman outside the grocery store asking for money to buy water. I went inside the store, bought a gallon of water and took it out to him. Both of these guys seemed to appreicate it. Guess I am just a sucker for a sob story, huh? BTW both of these incidents happened during daytime, and I Had other people in the car with me. If I had been alone at these times could have been different. I may have just said no and driven off.

seniorshooteress wrote:Why should there have been an altercation at all? Driving a BMW, let the guy wash the windows, hand him a $5 drive off.

Interesting point of view.

There have been several threads on how to deal with panhandlers approaching you on the street, how do you deal with one who has you trapped (?) in your vehicle at a traffic light? This oughta' get good.

I drive a Benz that does not make me rich, it means I got a good severance package from a former employer and trust me if I had known what it cost to maintain a Benz I would have bought a Toyota. Bottom-line is the guy was defending his property from a vandal.

seniorshooteress wrote:Why should there have been an altercation at all?

I agree. There's no good reason for a panhandler to get aggressive or commit criminal mischief.

tacticool wrote:

seniorshooteress wrote:Why should there have been an altercation at all?

I agree. There's no good reason for a panhandler to get aggressive or commit criminal mischief.

There's absolutely no reason for the guy with the spittle soaked rag to take his knife to your car's finish or break out the windshield or tear off the mirror simply because you have a shiney new car and he/she doesn't.

Peace be upon you, brothers and sisters.

Considering the nature of prisons you cant fault anyone for taking a plea for probation.

Guess I missed something; didn't see where the panhandler was tearing up the guy's car. If that was the case why didn't he just call 911. I am sure he had insurance to cover the damager to his car and probalbly cost a lot less on deductable than what it cost for a lawyer and possibly years of his life in prison.

seniorshooteress wrote:Guess I missed something; didn't see where the panhandler was tearing up the guy's car. If that was the case why didn't he just call 911. I am sure he had insurance to cover the damager to his car and probalbly cost a lot less on deductable than what it cost for a lawyer and possibly years of his life in prison.

Turn in your gun. After all, you can get insurance to cover anything the bad guys might do.

KD5NRH wrote:

seniorshooteress wrote:Guess I missed something; didn't see where the panhandler was tearing up the guy's car. If that was the case why didn't he just call 911. I am sure he had insurance to cover the damager to his car and probalbly cost a lot less on deductable than what it cost for a lawyer and possibly years of his life in prison.

Turn in your gun. After all, you can get insurance to cover anything the bad guys might do.

Don't think I will be turning in my gun any time soon. Even though I know I can get life insurance. To me a Bad guy is the one trying to harm my person. Material things can be replaced, life can't.

I might be wrong on terminology but isn't what the panhandler was doing is Extortion, vandalism? Is that not a crime. The panhandler knew the risks involved in what he was doing and knew it was wrong. I don't think he deserved to die, that was a tragic accident., however we have the right to defend that which is ours, material or not. As for just spitting on a window to wash it that is a biological hazard, a stretch maybe but still carries risks.

suthdj wrote:Bottom-line is the guy was defending his property from a vandal.

With all due respect, that's stretching things a little bit. I agree that the thought of some vagrant's spittle on my windshield is disgusting, but the sod was trying to earn a buck, even if he wasn't in command of the social graces in doing so. Vandalism is when they throw eggs at your car, spray paint it, and toss rocks through the window. The dead man did none of those things, and he didn't even try to steal the car, so you can't make an argument that it was justifiable in defense of property.

Wino spit is ghastly, but it does no real damage to the vehicle's windshield. This occurred at a gas station. 5 seconds with a wet squeegee and a paper towel would have undone whatever the vagrant did. Certainly not worth a physical altercation. I am sure the car's owner did not mean for this to happen, but it is a possible outcome when you lay hands on a person.

I don't think that the car's owner deserves a prison sentence, but he did cause a man's death in retaliation for a very minor offense, even if the result was unintentional. And even though the dead man's life might not have had much value by comparison to someone else's, it still has value. Jesus thinks it does, and that is good enough for me. But given that the outcome was not intentional, probation seems like an equitable result.

Just my 2¢.

HERE IS A LINK TO THE STORY, BY THE WAY.

The Annoyed Man wrote:I don't think that the car's owner deserves a prison sentence, but he did cause a man's death in retaliation for a very minor offense, even if the result was unintentional.

Consider a similar situation.

A woman is walking and a man starts to approach her. She tells him to stop. He keeps coming.
Moore told Davis to get away from his car. He didn't.

She tells him again to stay away from her. He keeps coming.
"Davis ignored requests to stop"

She displays a gun and repeats her request to stop. (force but not deadly force)
"Moore pushed Davis away" (force but not deadly force)

The man takes a step back, trips, falls, hits his head on the pavement and dies.
"Davis fell, hit his head on the pavement and died."

Do any of you think she should be charged in his death in this situation?