TexasCHLforum.com

I have been involved in the shooting sports since I was an 11 year old boy scout in the 60's. I am a member of a gun club and the NRA. I own 3 handguns and 4 rifles. I have a CHL and participate in IDPA and other action shooting sports. I voted for Ronald Reagan twice and George H.W. Bush once.
However, times have changed since the 80's. I am pro choice, anti death penalty, and politically independent. I voted for Obama with enthusiasm and hope. I detested the Bush/Cheney administration, and was against the Iraq War. I am college educated and have worked my life as a professional in the energy industry. I believe there are many issues this Country is facing that are far more important than gun rights and I can't make that my priority when supporting a candidate. I am sure this contrast with many readers of this forum. But my point is that there are many types of people that enjoy the shooting sports and are strong supporters of the 2nd amendment. A recent ABC news poll shows that only 20% of Americans call themselves a Republican, the lowest in 26 years. I hope the that the core readers of this forum know that there are very diverse opinions and views out there and to be respectful and tolerant of alternative views. We may be needed if and when a serious threat to our rights is presented to us. Please don't alienate us.

Differences of opinion are allowed - is this a great country or what?

When I started posting on this forum I didn't see anything in the rules that said we all have to think alike. As long as we follow the rules and respect each other I see nothing wrong with differences of opinion - in fact I like it that way - it makes for a more interesting forum. If we all thought alike this would be a pretty boring group. Politically, I don't think everybody is of the same stripe. I'm not a Republican and I'm not particularly conservative. But, so what. Speaking for myself, I post on this forum because I have a CHL and I share many common interests with other folks with CHL's. I own five handguns and I think that speaks for itself as far as my interests goes. I like diversity - welcome to the forum.

YabuUS wrote:When I started posting on this forum I didn't see anything in the rules that said we all have to think alike. As long as we follow the rules and respect each other I see nothing wrong with differences of opinion - in fact I like it that way - it makes for a more interesting forum. If we all thought alike this would be a pretty boring group. Politically, I don't think everybody is of the same stripe. I'm not a Republican and I'm not particularly conservative. But, so what. Speaking for myself, I post on this forum because I have a CHL and I share many common interests with other folks with CHL's. I own five handguns and I think that speaks for itself as far as my interests goes. I like diversity - welcome to the forum.

I'm not a Republican or a conservative either (independent and moderate, thank you)... but I can also relate to BillT's post (OP) and have at times felt like I was lost in "Rush Limbaugh - We Hate the President" land. Ha!
Diversity really is the spice of life and I know reading some posts on this forum... that sometimes I just have to bite my lip or sit on my hands to avoid responding to some comments that for me can be a tad upsetting... but it doesn't matter!

If we were all the same it would be soooo boring in here. In a sense, I'm glad that we seem to have a broad spectrum of folks with diverse views and beliefs. Makes coming back to this forum (after going through the "waiting" for your CHL) a genuine educational experience. It really is good to know who your friends and neighbors are.

BillT wrote:I believe there are many issues this Country is facing that are far more important than gun rights and I can't make that my priority when supporting a candidate

That is certainly your right. As long as you OWN your mistakes and dedicate yourself to correcting them if your candidate turns out to be a gun-grabber in fact, then we have no argument. My first vote as a Republican was for Bob Dole, not because I thought he was a spectacular candidate, but because Bill Clinton signed the AWB, and couldn't keep his pants zipped. I had always voted as a Democrat prior to that. And for what it is worth, I agree that the Republican party has relegated itself into insignificance — by trying to be Democrat Lite. As such, I am considering re-registering as an independent also. From now on, the Republican party is going to have to EARN my vote.

That said, I am self-employed and uninsured because insurance companies won't cover me due to previously existing conditions. But if your guy signs a bill into law that penalizes me to the tune of $3,800 per year, enforceable by the IRS, for not having a private insurance policy and being unwilling to accept government insurance, when I am perfectly happy to pay for my own medical care out of my pocket (for a lot less than $3,800 annually, and when I can raise the money needed for a catastrophic event), then you and I have a major problem and nothing more to talk about.

If your guy signs legislation that increase my business taxes in this economy, when I am barely squeaking by, then you and I have a major problem and nothing more to talk about.

Finally, if your guy can't either poop or get off the pot about troop levels in Afghanistan (79 + days and counting since General Crystal's recommendations), causing more American deaths while he waffles, then you and I have a major problem and nothing more to talk about. You are against the war? Fine. Then tell him to bring our boys and girls home NOW. Otherwise, tell him to cowboy up and act like a president who is Commander in Chief and responsible for the safety of the troops under his command while they are fighting on foreign soil.

And I'm not even going to go into him rolling over for Putin and the chicoms; or that he would likely be happier if Israel would simply cease to exist and all those pesky Jews would just roll over; or the FACT that the vast majority of Hondurans (per American friends of mine who actually live there) know that Zelaya is an insane dictator wannabe, but your guy wants him reinstated; or that Ahwannajihad of Iran plays him like a bongo drum; or that he has alienated the Brits, our most important allies in the WOT; or that he won't even call it a WOT anymore; or that he hires a record number of "tsars," particularly those that don't pay their taxes and are known to be affiliated with extreme radicalist causes; or that he is owned by such paragons or morality as ACORN and the SEIU; accepting an admittedly undeserved Nobel prize; sicking his administration attack dogs on the only news outlet that doesn't have its nose far up his posterior (even the allegedly "stoopid" Bush knew better than to get into a p*****g contest with Keith Olberman; and even the noted and very liberal "dean" of the WH press corps, Helen Thomas, has advised the administration to lay off that tactic); etc., etc., etc.

You know what? I voted for George Bush twice. Bush did things that I cannot agree with. But he didn't roll over for this nation's enemies (except perhaps when he "looked into Putin's eyes"), and compared to the "new transparency" of your guy's administration, Bush was the real deal.

I am sure that you are a decent and honorable man. But you put your hope in a man with little experience and a disturbing record of voting "present" rather than getting on the record. He is a cipher, and the only "record" we have to go on are his words. He is a cipher, and a neophyte at governing and at foreign policy. He is learning on the taxpayer dime, instead of having arrived prepared to govern. Please do not take any of this as a flame attack; it is not intended as such. You raised the issues by posting the opening post. I'm merely responding, and this is my 2¢.

Oh, and welcome to the forum.

YabuUS wrote: I own five handguns and I think that speaks for itself as far as my interests goes. I like diversity

"Diversity"? Why don't you try owning a few long guns you pistol-IST!!!

I try to restrict myself purely to CHL topics at this point. After having been and seen people being blasted on discussions about candidates, positions, events, even commonsensical open carry vs. CHL discussions I find it...prudent to restrict myself to these very narrow topics. Thats fine, but I hold no illusions about political diversity here.

TAM , that was a powerful post . i share the same feelings that you expressed .

austinrealtor wrote:

YabuUS wrote: I own five handguns and I think that speaks for itself as far as my interests goes. I like diversity

"Diversity"? Why don't you try owning a few long guns you pistol-IST!!!

Ayah I need to be more diverse in this regard as well.

I try to restrict myself purely to CHL topics at this point.

I try to restrict myself to harassing USA1 at every opportunity.

joe817 wrote:

I try to restrict myself purely to CHL topics at this point.

I try to restrict myself to harassing USA1 at every opportunity.

right back at ya buddy .

USA1 wrote:

joe817 wrote:

I try to restrict myself purely to CHL topics at this point.

I try to restrict myself to harassing USA1 at every opportunity.

right back at ya buddy .

Frazzled always respects mutual harassment.

Gosh I love this forum!

Oh, boy!

The problem of politics on this forum (and in general discourse) is twofold:

1. most people (including me, you and all of us) are necessarily uninformed or misinformed because we are only occasional tertiary consumers of political information, and that information is presented by primarily biased sources

2. even those people who are not misinformed, may not agree in terms of goals, reason, ideals, etc. So while I value freedom and make choices based on freedom, clearly some people think that freedom is not "fair" and they make decisions based on their sense of "fairness". For me, "the right thing" to do is to leave you the heck alone and let you live your own life, make your own money, make your own choices, mistakes, successes, and suffer the consequences or reap the benefits. For you, "the right thing" may be to take care of others by force of law, take away resources from some people and give them to other people, and selectively enforce "freedoms" based on an intrinsic value applied to the freedom in question (such as, freedom of speech is more valuable than the right to keep and bear arms, or your freedom to not have to hear about my religion is more valuable than my freedom to express my religion in your presence, etc.).

Political discussions are only productive when you are able to conduct them within an audience that have at least some kind of common ground. So unless we can all discover that we are similarly and correctly informed, or we can all agree that freedom is more important than security, etc., then there is no way to have a conversation that is productive at all. Given the wide-open nature of the internet, this makes political discussion on the internet pretty much doomed to failure.

Even on this forum we can't all agree on gun rights alone!

Thanks for your thoughts "The Annoyed Man". I can sympathize with your frustrations. I had many similar frustrations during the Bush years and wrote many emails and posted on many blogs with comments as long as yours. I had reservations about Bush since my wife and I had the occasion to meet him while he was governor and campaigning for president. When he learned my wife was from Brasil and tried to speak Spanish with her I began to question his qualifications to be a world leader. It just got worse as time went on. No Sept 11th connection to Sadam, no WMD's etc, and a war that killed thousands of Americans and many times that amount of civilians. I could go on and on but that is behind us now. I made the choice of Obama over McCain. He is not "my guy" , he is my President. George Bush was my President. Obama is your President too. You are a citizen of this country. Give our President a chance. He has not been in office a year and he inherited a Country that was at it's lowest point in modern times. It can't and won't be fixed overnight. But this is a great Country no matter what party is in office. Only through compromise can this Country rise up again to be the envy of the world. Divisiveness just slows or stops the progress that we so desperately need. The glass is half full, not half empty! But then again I am the eternal optimist, it's what gets me through the day!