UT: Man protecting daughter shoots neighborhood watch member

[seamusTX]

In the Salt Lake City area, Tuesday night, a member of a neighborhood watch group saw two teenage girls in an area that had been troubled by vehicle burglaries. He followed them for a while. The girls became alarmed and one of them called her father.

After a series of comings and goings, the father found the neighborhood watch member after midnight. The two men got out of their vehicles and one shot the other.

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/7053 ... e-say.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

- Jim

[Drewthetexan]

9-1-1 Report suspicious activity.

Just a thought.

[seamusTX]

I don't give too much credibility to this kind of preliminary report; but if the facts were reported accurately, I think both guys tried too hard.

- Jim

[seamusTX]

The shooter in this case has been arrested "for investigation of attempted murder." The injured man is in the hospital with a spinal cord injury.

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/7053 ... unded.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

- Jim

[Purplehood]

I would suggest that if you are motivated enough to conduct neighborhood watch activities at midnight that you do a number of things to help alleviate problems like that from arising (like getting shot):

One: Wear a reflective safety-vest so you get noticed and folks at least stop and think when they see you.

Two: Buy one of those cheap custom magnetic-signs to put on your car doors. "Such-and-Such Subdivision Home Owners Neighborhood Watch Assn".

Three: Buy a magnetic yellow flashing light like you see on utility vehicles and stick it on your car roof when "patrolling". Though some might argue against it, isn't visibility a key to a neighborhood watch keeping the BG's away?

[seamusTX]

Following teenage girls is probably not a good idea, either.

Following anyone without identifying yourself is provocative.

- Jim

[Purplehood]

Following teenage kids at midnight when you are in a neighborhood watch is...understandable. I just don't think I would have been "sneaky" about it. I think as a neighborhood watch member you want to stand out. If the kids had been up to no-good, they might have thought twice if they had known that the local watch was watching.
I do agree that appearing to be Uncle Pervie following two young girls is not the best of ideas.

[joe817]

I would suggest that if you are motivated enough to conduct neighborhood watch activities at midnight that you do a number of things to help alleviate problems like that from arising (like getting shot):
One: Wear a reflective safety-vest so you get noticed and folks at least stop and think when they see you.
Two: Buy one of those cheap custom magnetic-signs to put on your car doors. "Such-and-Such Subdivision Home Owners Neighborhood Watch Assn".
Three: Buy a magnetic yellow flashing light like you see on utility vehicles and stick it on your car roof when "patrolling". Though some might argue against it, isn't visibility a key to a neighborhood watch keeping the BG's away?

All of those are excellent ideas, but you forgot a fourth: Wear body armor. (you know, that's really not a bad idea)

[seamusTX]

Following teenage kids at midnight when you are in a neighborhood watch is...understandable.

It's not clear what time the neighborhood watch guy started following the girls. It wasn't midnight. The father of one of the girls had come to their location, went home with them, and then drove around looking for the neighborhood watch guy.

In any case, it seems that if either guy had called the police to investigate suspicious activity, none of this would have happened.

- Jim

[Purplehood]

Following teenage kids at midnight when you are in a neighborhood watch is...understandable.

It's not clear what time the neighborhood watch guy started following the girls. It wasn't midnight. The father of one of the girls had come to their location, went home with them, and then drove around looking for the neighborhood watch guy.

In any case, it seems that if the either guy had called the police to investigate suspicious activity, none of this would have happened.

- Jim

But their paths crossed through an unfortunate series of events and severe miscommunication that resulted in Campos allegedly shooting and critically injuring Serbeck in the early morning hours Wednesday at 1600 West and 12400 South

Campos called 911 just after midnight and said he had just shot someone, Hutson said. When deputies arrived at the scene, they found 36-year-old Serbeck lying face down on the ground, with a gun next to his hand

[joe817]

Well put Russell, and I agree. A needless tragedy.

[seamusTX]

It gets worse.

According to a charging document, the shooter, Mr. Campos, drew a weapon on the other vehicle. The man who was shot, Mr. Serbeck, got out of his vehicle and set his weapon on the ground. Campos then allegedly shot Serbeck.

A witness was in Serbeck's vehicle, and Serbeck's pistol was found on the ground with the safety on.

http://www.sltrib.com/news/ci_12923426" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

- Jim

[KD5NRH]

One: Wear a reflective safety-vest so you get noticed and folks at least stop and think when they see you.

The biggest problem with overt patrolling is that absence of evidence becomes evidence of absence: no shiny reflector guy in sight means go ahead and burgle a few cars. That's why most security training emphasizes that semi- and fully covert patrols and other measures need to be included as well.

For example; there's a particular spot on my way home where the police love to sit in full view. It doesn't slow me or anyone else down a bit when it's obvious that they aren't there. If they backed up 20 feet to a spot that can't be seen from a quarter mile away, and surprised a few drivers with warnings and/or tickets, then people would be more likely to slow down even when they don't see a blindingly obvious marked cruiser there. In another place, they occasionally sit on a side street watching a four-way stop from a location where they can't be seen by traffic from the north until about one car-length short of the stop sign. As a result, people who don't notice the stop sign or just don't intend to stop don't have time to change their minds after noticing that there's a cop watching, and they get caught. Most of the town knows that the enforcement there is much rarer than the pretty much daily speed enforcement above, but they're a lot more careful about the stop sign because they never really know if they're being watched until it's too late to change the behavior.