TexasCHLforum.com

Amazon US customers have one week to opt out of mass wireless sharing

https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2021/05/amazon-devices-will-soon-automatically-share-your-internet-with-neighbors/

At my first glance, it appears that only certain, probably later model, devices can connect via Amazon sidewalk. Looks like the cameras I use are not on the list, but will be keeping an eye on this.

All it shares is your connection (a tiny amount) for OTHER Ring and Sidewalk devices... your neighbor isn't going to be browsing the web over your connection... it's a bunch of fake news... if you use the internet (TOR, etc. or pay with cash) you still don't have any privacy... Stop thinking you do.

Thanks for the heads up!

And it ain't necessarily as easy to deal with as the news articles say. First, with all the news about a June 8 deadline to opt-out of Amazon Sidewalk before it goes into effect by default, I casually hopped over to my Android phone, launched the Alex app, went to Settings, Account Settings, and...nada. Nothing about Sidewalk anywhere to be found. Browsed all around the app trying to find the setting. Nowhere.

So I started a support chat with Amazon at 10:39 this morning. Long story short, I went through four different agents--one of whom came on for all of two minutes, posted a canned response to me, and then just left the chat before I could respond. The chat finally ended at 11:34. Here's what I think I learned...but can't confirm.

Evidently, for users of the Alexa app on some Android devices, there's a known issue with the Sidewalk settings option not appearing:

"Currently this is an emerging issue from our side where some of our customers are not able to find the sidewalk setting on the Alexa app. Our technical team is working to sort this issue out as soon as possible. I do really apologize for the inconvenience."

One agent's only recommendation was for me to completely delete the app from my phone and reinstall it from scratch to see if that made a difference. I expressed my hesitancy at doing that because it took me a long trial-and-error process to finally get all my Alexa-enabled devices setup the way I want and talking to everything else properly (three Echos, Fire TV, two cameras, three smart switches, a tablet PC, and two cell phones).

The recommendation then was to install the PC version of the app from the Microsoft Store. But don't do that. Because it turns out there is not, has never been, and will never be access to the Sidewalk settings from the desktop app.

The last agent I got confirmed that, nope, the Sidewalk settings aren't available via the desktop app or at alexa.amazon.com. Can't do it. And said, regarding the Android issue, "Our technical team is working on this and they will fix this issue as soon as possible. You can rest assured that you will see a change in the near future in an app update."

But the kicker?

"If you did not enable Amazon Sidewalk then no need to disable it. It is by default disabled."

I said that disagreed with the umpteen news sources reporting that after June 8 it will be turned on unless we specifically opt-out; I asked for confirmation.

"No need to worry. Sidewalk is by default disabled in the account unless you enable it."

So color me still confused, but I've already spent way too much time on, er, the Sidewalk. So if it squeezes in its hidden 500MB max bandwidth usage this month, I'll just watch for it in my router logs and deal with it later.

On my Android Ring app, the devices listed as sidewalk enabled do not include my doorbell.
On my Android Alexa app, there is no option for Sidewalk settings... I guess I'll have to keep checking for an update.

My Echo is an early rev... maybe not sidewalk compatible? Same for my doorbell. I think it's Gen 2.

Watching.

On my iPhone, the latest updates FORCE all 3rd party apps to seek your approval for access to things like your browsing data and location services. It’s driving Facebook, the DNC Advertising Department (AKA “Google”), and Amazon crazy.

I have the following:
Echo Dots v2
Echo Dots v3
Echo clocks (The ones with a digital display clock on them not the Echo show)
Echo Studio with subwoofer
More Wemo, Smarthome, garage door openers, security system links, Blink cameras, Ecobee thermostats, Wyze plugs, bulbs and switches than you can shake a stick at.

Samsung Galaxy S20 FE running Android 11 patched to April 1st 2021
Amazon Alexa App

From the Alexa App Home screen I clicked MORE In the lower right corner. Then click SETTINGS. Then click ACCOUNT SETTINGS. Then click AMAZON SIDEWALK. Then I clicked DISABLE.

It was ENABLED when I went into the screen initially. I am going to leave it disabled. From discussions I have been a part of it appears that Amazon knew that this setting has a creep factor to it and the only way to get large-scale buy-in would be to deploy it in an ENABLED mode. I have Wireshark running on my CISCO firewall and will watch for any extraneous packets or connections. More info when I have it... Hope this helps.

I still turned it off but one thing this "feature" does is helps track those "tracking tags" like Tile that you can buy and put on things like keys, dogs, kids back packs, etc. The more phones, devices etc that have something like this turned on, better the tracking works as the tag can say "I'm here" as it passes.

I'm not advocating, just adding info on what Amazon is trying to accomplish.

jerry_r60 wrote: ↑Wed Jun 02, 2021 2:26 pm I still turned it off but one thing this "feature" does is helps track those "tracking tags" like Tile that you can buy and put on things like keys, dogs, kids back packs, etc. The more phones, devices etc that have something like this turned on, better the tracking works as the tag can say "I'm here" as it passes.

I'm not advocating, just adding info on what Amazon is trying to accomplish.

It's no more risky than having secured Wifi in your home.

chamberc wrote: ↑Wed Jun 02, 2021 2:51 pm

jerry_r60 wrote: ↑Wed Jun 02, 2021 2:26 pm I still turned it off but one thing this "feature" does is helps track those "tracking tags" like Tile that you can buy and put on things like keys, dogs, kids back packs, etc. The more phones, devices etc that have something like this turned on, better the tracking works as the tag can say "I'm here" as it passes.

I'm not advocating, just adding info on what Amazon is trying to accomplish.

It's no more risky than having secured Wifi in your home.

I suspect it's pretty benign and safe but I don't need it so turned it off on the off chance some exploit gets introduced that I am unaware of. Risk / Reward....very low risk, no reward.

jerry_r60 wrote: ↑Wed Jun 02, 2021 2:58 pm

chamberc wrote: ↑Wed Jun 02, 2021 2:51 pm

jerry_r60 wrote: ↑Wed Jun 02, 2021 2:26 pm I still turned it off but one thing this "feature" does is helps track those "tracking tags" like Tile that you can buy and put on things like keys, dogs, kids back packs, etc. The more phones, devices etc that have something like this turned on, better the tracking works as the tag can say "I'm here" as it passes.

I'm not advocating, just adding info on what Amazon is trying to accomplish.

It's no more risky than having secured Wifi in your home.

I suspect it's pretty benign and safe but I don't need it so turned it off on the off chance some exploit gets introduced that I am unaware of. Risk / Reward....very low risk, no reward.

Exactly. But beyond that, for me, is the principle of the thing. My life is IN. NO. WAY. made better by allowing my comings and goings—whether virtual or IRL—to be monitored by ANYBODY. Period. I don’t care if the purpose is allegedly benign. The fact is that even the "benign" purposes exist for trying to influence my purchasing decisions. Every day, I am barraged with SPAM email. My physical mailbox is fed about a 3/4 to 1/4 mix of junk mail to necessary mail. I receive bogus text messages trying to get me to click on unsolicited links, and UNENDING phone calls trying to sell me an extended vehicle warranty. (The joke's on them…..I drive a Toyota that will still be running long after all of us are already in the ground.) I. AM. FED. UP. Google, Facebook, and Amazon can go have intimate knowledge of themselves. I’d feel the same way about Apple, except that they’re the ONE large corporation that not only leaves me alone most of the time, but also proactively takes steps to protect my privacy from all of those other sharks—both in and out of gov’t.

I. DON'T. CARE. if I’m missing out on the opportunity for some great deal or other. I. DON'T NEED. to be able to remotely turn off my lights or A/C. I don’t need to be able to tell Alexa what to do or what to buy, when I can just walk over to my computer or flip a wall switch to do it. I’m a grownass man. And, it’s money that I’m not inclined to spend most of the time anyway. I just want to be left alone, and I don’t think that’s too much to ask from these companies.





Other than that, I have no opinion in the matter.

The Annoyed Man wrote: ↑Thu Jun 03, 2021 10:02 am

jerry_r60 wrote: ↑Wed Jun 02, 2021 2:58 pm

chamberc wrote: ↑Wed Jun 02, 2021 2:51 pm

jerry_r60 wrote: ↑Wed Jun 02, 2021 2:26 pm I still turned it off but one thing this "feature" does is helps track those "tracking tags" like Tile that you can buy and put on things like keys, dogs, kids back packs, etc. The more phones, devices etc that have something like this turned on, better the tracking works as the tag can say "I'm here" as it passes.
I'm not advocating, just adding info on what Amazon is trying to accomplish.

It's no more risky than having secured Wifi in your home.

I suspect it's pretty benign and safe but I don't need it so turned it off on the off chance some exploit gets introduced that I am unaware of. Risk / Reward....very low risk, no reward.

Exactly. But beyond that, for me, is the principle of the thing. My life is IN. NO. WAY. made better by allowing my comings and goings—whether virtual or IRL—to be monitored by ANYBODY. Period. I don’t care if the purpose is allegedly benign. The fact is that even the "benign" purposes exist for trying to influence my purchasing decisions. Every day, I am barraged with SPAM email. My physical mailbox is fed about a 3/4 to 1/4 mix of junk mail to necessary mail. I receive bogus text messages trying to get me to click on unsolicited links, and UNENDING phone calls trying to sell me an extended vehicle warranty. (The joke's on them…..I drive a Toyota that will still be running long after all of us are already in the ground.) I. AM. FED. UP. Google, Facebook, and Amazon can go have intimate knowledge of themselves. I’d feel the same way about Apple, except that they’re the ONE large corporation that not only leaves me alone most of the time, but also proactively takes steps to protect my privacy from all of those other sharks—both in and out of gov’t.
I. DON'T. CARE. if I’m missing out on the opportunity for some great deal or other. I. DON'T NEED. to be able to remotely turn off my lights or A/C. I don’t need to be able to tell Alexa what to do or what to buy, when I can just walk over to my computer or flip a wall switch to do it. I’m a grownass man. And, it’s money that I’m not inclined to spend most of the time anyway. I just want to be left alone, and I don’t think that’s too much to ask from these companies.
Other than that, I have no opinion in the matter.

DITTO!!!!!!!!!!!!

So normally I see these sort of things on Facebook.

“Copy this text and repost it otherwise you won’t see any of your real friends or all your photos will belong to Facebook or some other doom will befall you”

This sounded like that at first, but then I saw MSM was doing stories on it like it was a real thing.

Seemed very odd that Amazon would do this with out sending me an email or something.

After reading this thread I’m still confused. Do echos broadcast WiFi now? I thought they just received. Considering how poorly my super fancy four antenna hyper powerful expensive xyzgh band 5.1 2.9 WiFi router fails to reach all of the house now, I’m wondering how my echo with no antenna is going to reach my sidewalk?

Do we have a conclusion? Fact or fiction? Or as one poster suggested no different than your current WiFi now.

philip964 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 03, 2021 11:05 am

Seemed very odd that Amazon would do this with out sending me an email or something.

After reading this thread I’m still confused. Do echos broadcast WiFi now? I thought they just received. Considering how poorly my super fancy four antenna hyper powerful expensive xyzgh band 5.1 2.9 WiFi router fails to reach all of the house now, I’m wondering how my echo with no antenna is going to reach my sidewalk?

Do we have a conclusion? Fact or fiction? Or as one poster suggested no different than your current WiFi now.

This is where I am on this matter. I saw the functionality listed in the Alexa App but I am not sure how they are going to get thither from hither. When I originally bought an Echo, I was an early beta tester, I tore it down and hooked it up to my PC acting as a phantom hotspot so that I could Wireshark the line and see what it was doing. Physically it has all of the component hardware to be able to act as a hotspot. Think of it like your cell phone. Normally an Echo just connects to a Wifi system and sends and receives data from the Wifi Router. Some phones, actually most nowadays, have the ability to turn on their Wifi antenna to broadcast as a Hotspot.

I think this is how they are going to achieve what they are purporting to do. The Echos have all of the hardware necessary to act as a hotspot but it would require a pretty large firmware stack rewrite in order. My guess is they had some sort of similar functionality planned all along and the code has already been there just waiting to be turned on. I am fine with it if they are upfront about it. If they tell you were are going to do XYZ and they do XY and Z then that is the price of admission. I get made in cases like this where they say XYZ but wind up down AB and C!

Besides that it may be in violation of your agreement with your ISP, devices like these which are called IOT (Internet of Things) do pose security risks. Here are a couple of articles about IOT security risks. I do not have Amazon devices so it doesn't affect me, but I do not like they are riding free on someone else's dime and that it may pose privacy and security issues.

https://www.techradar.com/news/the-dang ... iot-and-ai
https://www.zdnet.com/article/these-new ... patch-now/