Calexit

[wil]

Cherry picking select quotes/topics from Tucker Carlson's interview of the liberal talking head from California;

Lastly, Texas is the only entity that has a legal right to secede, ...

Not true. Texas has no more powers than any other state. And maybe has less. The annexation agreement that brought Texas into the Union limited the maximum number of states that Texas could be divided into (5) - no other state has a limit on it like that.

As to legality, there is no legal mechanism to secede from the US. If a state announces it has "seceded" then the result will either be acquiescence or war. Last time there was war.

As to legality, there is no legal mechanism to secede from the US.

Yes there is a legal mechanism, it is stated directly and clearly in the founding law of this country, the declaration of independence.

http://www.ushistory.org/Declaration/document/


"..That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness."


You'll note the most important part............."....it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it...."

Secession is one means of accomplishing that and was done both in 1776 and 1836.

[ELB]

Your examples refute you.

The Declaration of Independence certainly was not a legal procedure in the legal system it was written under -- it was a declaration of rebellion. 1776, 1836, and 1861, were all examples of rebellion against the legal authority. None of them were done according to the rules of the legal system that was in force, and those systems did not have any legal procedure for seceding. Just like there is no legal means in the US Constitution.

Secession is certainly a political act, and act of power, and you can claim the right to do so, but it is not in any sense legal. You have to make it stick, to have enough power to do so. In 1776 and 1836, the rebels were able to muster the political and military power to make it happen.

The Confederate States of America could not muster that power, and the result put paid to the notion that one can legally secede from the US. That's not to say it can't or won't happen in the future, but it won't be "legal" unless the Constitution is amended.

[ninjabread]

"History is written by the victors."

[Abraham]

"History is written by the victors."

Yep and the great unwashed losers cry and cry and cry...I want my free stuff and you awful Conservatives won't give it to me, bwah, bwah, shudder, snivel...

Next, I hope fraudulent, unqualified food stamp recipients when caught for being grifters should serve time on a prison chain gang and have to pay for their own food (like they do in a number of foreign countries) or go without!

[bblhd672]

Sadly, I note that California has not seceded yet.

[RogueUSMC]

Well, let's see........ Here's how I see it playing out in my fondest dreams........

1. "Calexit" passes as a ballot initiative with a huge majority of the vote, directing Gov Moonbeam and the State Asylum for the Legislatively Inclined in Sacramento to draw up documents for a formal secession from the Union, to be completed in 1 year.
2. The inmates of the Asylum and Gov Moonbeam begin drawing up documents, setting an official secession date.
3. POTUS Trump immediately orders the following actions, all to be completed 1 month before the official secession date:
   
   1. Federalize the California National Guard and deploy them to other bases outside of California.
   2. ALL federally owned military materiel, to include all transportation vehicles, all ships, all aircraft, all armored vehicles, all firearms, artillery, and other weaponry, all ammunition, all fuel stores including Naval Petroleum Reserves, all food stores, etc., to be removed from California and repositioned at other military installations outside of California.
   3. ALL federal military personnel based in California to be redeployed to other bases outside of California.
   4. The complete destruction of all vacated military facilities, to include implosion of all standing structures, filling in of all silos, demolition of all docks, ripping up of all runways, etc.
   5. The construction of border crossing stations at all Interstate highways and rail lines which enter the US from Californiastan.
4. Trump issues these executive order 1 month before secession is official:
   
   1. All California residents, military excepted, currently engaged in business or visiting in the other 49 states must return to California by secession date, or be classified as illegal aliens and deported if caught.
   2. Californians currently serving in the US military at the time of secession to be offered US citizenship if they want it. They have 30 days to decide yes or no. If they do not want it, then they must discharged and returned to California.
   3. All federal assistance dollars being paid to the state of California or to California counties and cities will be stopped immediately.
   4. All federal welfare, food stamp, and other individual assistance dollars to be stopped immediately.
   5. No Californians receiving welfare payments at the time of secession may enter the US after secession, unless they have proof of guaranteed employment in the US, plus a US sponsor.
   6. For 6 months following secession, Californians possessing professional skills may seek political asylum in the US.
   7. Beginning 24 hours after secession, all Californians wishing to enter the US must have both a California passport and obtain a visa.
5. Trump orders the severing of all non-interstate roadways between California and the US.
6. Trump sends a supplemental to Congress for funds to begin building an extension of the border wall/fence along the eastern and norther border of California.
7. Trump orders that:
   
   1. Diplomatic recognition of gov't of California be made dependent upon payment of all unpaid federal income taxes and/or capital gains taxes which were still due 24 hours before the date of secession.
   2. If Diplomatic recognition succeeds, then California must conclude a trade deal with US.
   3. Any trade deal concluded with California MUST contain a clause specifying a import/export duty on all products going into or out of California, to remain in place until the cost of building the border wall/fence extension around California has been paid for.

I wonder how they'll defend themselves from a Mexican invasion?

Man, that felt good!

And Cali pays market value per acre for Camp Pendleton...

[The Annoyed Man]

And Cali pays market value per acre for Camp Pendleton...

Well that goes without saying....... and Camp Roberts and Fort Ord too.

[bblhd672]

And Cali pays market value per acre for Camp Pendleton...

Well that goes without saying....... and Camp Roberts and Fort Ord too.

And all of the Naval facilities around San Diego, Long Beach, San Francisco.

[Zoo]

Sadly, I note that California has not seceded yet.

Even worse, the hollywierdos haven't moved to Canada yet.

[wil]

Your examples refute you.

The Declaration of Independence certainly was not a legal procedure in the legal system it was written under -- it was a declaration of rebellion. 1776, 1836, and 1861, were all examples of rebellion against the legal authority. None of them were done according to the rules of the legal system that was in force, and those systems did not have any legal procedure for seceding. Just like there is no legal means in the US Constitution.

Secession is certainly a political act, and act of power, and you can claim the right to do so, but it is not in any sense legal. You have to make it stick, to have enough power to do so. In 1776 and 1836, the rebels were able to muster the political and military power to make it happen.

The Confederate States of America could not muster that power, and the result put paid to the notion that one can legally secede from the US. That's not to say it can't or won't happen in the future, but it won't be "legal" unless the Constitution is amended.

ok, then let me ask you this question.

What is the basis of authority for the Constitution and the bill of rights as law? Since the same group of people wrote both, on what basis do they derive their legitimacy as law?

[ELB]

As an intellectual and moral matter, the rights to self-government, free speech, self-defense, etc are based on the notion they are inherent to our existence and given by God.

As a practical matter, they are based on violence, on the use of force -- the Founding Fathers and the Continental Army and militias beat the British. There was no "legal" basis for us to separate -- King George III and his government wanted to hang our forefathers as traitors, and he would have been quite "legal" in doing so. Having created a separation -- a secession -- by force, we created a new legal basis among ourselves and agreed to abide by it. (For that matter, all law is ultimately about violence, the legal system simply adjudicates who gets to do "legal" violence to whom, and for what reasons). Ultimately there was a treaty signed between Britain and the confederation of American states -- I suppose that could be said to be a "legal" basis, but it was ratification of a secession already established by force.

The US Constitution and the laws derived from it (and the laws not derived from it!) do not provide for dismantling the US --there is no "legal" way to secede, there is no mechanism that via constitutional article nor legal statute provides for secession.

Do not confuse what might be "right", God-given or otherwise, with what is "legal." We try to get them to overlap, but they are not always 100% congruent.

[Mxrdad]

Alrighty then, lets just sell California to Mexico and use the proceeds to pay for the wall. Let em start making movies in Mexico.

[Flightmare]

[chasfm11]

Several States, including CA (NJ, CO, MD) have had secession discussions within themselves. In CA, there is a part of the geography would would be very unlikely to want to leave the US.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/13/us/13secession.html

I hope that this discussion continues. When the Progressives had Federal power, they were only too willing to overrun the 10th Amendment to achieve their goals. Now that they are the "oppressed" rather than the oppressors, It would not surprise me to see a big push for States rights - and I would vigorously applaud. While it CA for the moment that is in the secession limelight, the politics in Oregon and Washington are pretty close to the blue parts of CA. They will be pushing for more autonomy. Depending on how this plays out, that could be a good thing.