Couple attacked for telling thugs to be quiet in theater

[Jumping Frog]

I feel this issue escalaed due a racial slur.

I don't recall anything about race in the story...

A "Mob of menacing teenagers" certainly qualifies as a "disparity of force," especially if the numbers quoted are accurate...

The TV News video attached to this version of story makes the racial difference obvious. http://www.theblaze.com/stories/marine- ... ide-movie/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The thug said he was going to knock the wife out, and then he punched her in the face and she was knocked out. I've experienced seeing a sibling with a traumatic brain injury, and believe me, that qualifies as "serious bodily injury". I'd have no hesitation about opening fire. My only concern would be that I only carry 43 rounds of .45 ACP (14+1 plus 2 spare mags). Maybe I need more reloads!

I feel especially bad for the husband. Seems pitiful that here is a Marine on leave for the holidays from Afghanistan, and home is actually more dangerous that being over there. He also ended up on the ground being kicked and pummeled, and was hospitalized.

[The Annoyed Man]

I feel this issue escalaed due a racial slur.

I don't recall anything about race in the story...

A "Mob of menacing teenagers" certainly qualifies as a "disparity of force," especially if the numbers quoted are accurate...

The TV News video attached to this version of story makes the racial difference obvious. http://www.theblaze.com/stories/marine- ... ide-movie/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The thug said he was going to knock the wife out, and then he punched her in the face and she was knocked out. I've experienced seeing a sibling with a traumatic brain injury, and believe me, that qualifies as "serious bodily injury". I'd have no hesitation about opening fire. My only concern would be that I only carry 43 rounds of .45 ACP (14+1 plus 2 spare mags). Maybe I need more reloads!

I feel especially bad for the husband. Seems pitiful that here is a Marine on leave for the holidays from Afghanistan, and home is actually more dangerous that being over there. He also ended up on the ground being kicked and pummeled, and was hospitalized.

Not to quibble, but the marine himself said that the media had it wrong about that. He did one combat tour in Iraq, but is currently stationed at Camp Pendleton and was home on a leave.... ...not to diminish his service, but just to get the details correct.

[esxmarkc]

As for dealing with a large crowd 300? Nope, can get um all,, but but I can encourage the remaining 281 that they do not want to be #20.

Given that the 300 in question all arrived at the scene with the intent to do harm and prepared as such, I'd give that mission an extremely low chance of success. Out of a crowd of 300 thugs summoned to do battle, how many do you think would be armed as well or possibly better than you? I'd give you any odds that within such a crowd there would be quite a few that would convince you that you should have upped your term life policy.

Once the situation had stewed outside the theater to mob levels I would imagine that any attempt at verbal communication/deescalation would have only added gasoline to the fire. And once the need for deadly force was eminent he certainly should have attempted to use it if he possessed it. The beating he and his wife took could have just as easily been fatal or permanently disabling.

But anyone who thinks they can whip out their handgun and immediately obtain crowd control over an angry mob need only recall what happened to Meredith Hunter (yes that's a guys name) at Altamont Speedway. He was almost instantly stabbed to death (in the head) and beaten to the point of non-recognition before he could get off a shot.

Asking someone to keep the noise down is not a confrontation.. And as a Human, a civilized human, we SHOULD ask others to respect a common bit if consideration to others.

It all depends on the situation/environment/surroundings/individuals. In some situations and with some individuals I can almost guarantee you a confrontation. If you are sitting in a church and the kids on the row behind you are getting a bit too playful then there is no problem in attempting to maintain civility. If you are in a darkened theater and you bark out dominant commands at a hormone fueled crowd of upper teen aged thugs then good luck to you.

Those not willing to do that deserve what they get, and really, should stay at home, and order in pizza.

Maybe some of us are just a bit wiser as to when/where we pick which hill we choose to do battle on. Sometimes it is at home over the last slice of pizza.

[DONT TREAD ON ME]

AndyC,
I agree with you. When the bullets start to fly, even if armed, most thugs run and like you said this provides distance and time. They do tend to shoot back but hopefully in that time you were able to move to cover. I will take my chances attempting to stop the threat rather than watch my wife get beaten. However, I think that the real problem is that common decency is dead and as it was stated earlier kids today are all about me, me, me. Its disgusting and pathetic.

I had a similar situation a couple years ago. I had just returned home from Iraq. The wife and I wanted to spend some time together so we went to a Sunday afternoon movie. Right behind us there were some thugs being obnoxious. All teenagers, mainly boys trying to impress the girls that were with them. I turned to the and asked them to quiet down. They didn't so I turned to them and told them to be quiet in a not so nice way. One of them threatened to call his father on me. So, I turned back around and said go ahead and do it I would love it explain to him how rude and obnoxious you are when he is not around. Needless to say they didn't say another word the rest of the night. Luckily for my wife and I our situation turned out good. Had they kept up the noise I would have gotten the manager.

[Purplehood]

The reason for carrying is never knowing how/when or why you are going to end up in a life-threatening situation despite your misguided attempts at living a decent law-abiding life.
Telling a kid to "shush" shouldn't end up like this. Are you advocating that when we encounter kids like this in the theater we simply go ask for a refund and leave, thereby condoning the behavior?

[chasfm11]

The reason for carrying is never knowing how/when or why you are going to end up in a life-threatening situation despite your misguided attempts at living a decent law-abiding life.
Telling a kid to "shush" shouldn't end up like this. Are you advocating that when we encounter kids like this in the theater we simply go ask for a refund and leave, thereby condoing the behavior?

I don't think that contacting management and asking for a refund is condoning the behavior. I do think that our society has decided that just about any other course of action is going to go against us, no matter how noble the intention and manner of delivery.

When teens get together as a group, the results can be unpredictable. Addressing a group of teens in any fashion is almost always seen by them as confrontational no matter how you do it. Add radical differences between the requester and the teens (and there are several combinations to choose from) and you are almost guaranteed a confrontation.

We've had two threads in the last couple of weeks where well intentioned folks attempted to address aberrant public behavior in a group and both situations escalated. Keeping in mind that my first goal is to protect myself and my family, I'll take these situations as a sign that my attempt to address similar public behavior in the future is likely to result in a similar escalation. In addition, I'm very concerned that if a violent confrontation occurred, the truth about what happened would never see the light of day since it would be many to one (or two) telling the story. The thread where the guy was attacked by two unarmed women and a boyfriend confirms that, too.

We have a choice of movie houses in our area. AMC, which is 30.06 posted and Tinseltown, which is not. I'd never think about going to the movie unarmed so AMC is not an option for me. That said, I don't go to the movies to attempt to cure the ills of society. If I'm going to be faced with an unruly mob (and that is the best description that I can come up with, based on my reading of the story), I'm going to hand the
situation over to others. I wouldn't hesitate to get theater management and/or LEOs involved but I'm not going to attempt it myself. If nothing else underscores the gravity of the potential situation, the fact that the teens in the article were willing to take on uniformed, armed LEOs should. Wasn't there a wise saying about the best way to win a gun fight was not to be there when it happened? If I'm forced into, that is one thing. If I have the option not to be there, I'm going to take it.

[Purplehood]

The reason for carrying is never knowing how/when or why you are going to end up in a life-threatening situation despite your misguided attempts at living a decent law-abiding life.
Telling a kid to "shush" shouldn't end up like this. Are you advocating that when we encounter kids like this in the theater we simply go ask for a refund and leave, thereby condoing the behavior?

I don't think that contacting management and asking for a refund is condoning the behavior. I do think that our society has decided that just about any other course of action is going to go against us, no matter how noble the intention and manner of delivery.

When teens get together as a group, the results can be unpredictable. Addressing a group of teens in any fashion is almost always seen by them as confrontational no matter how you do it. Add radical differences between the requester and the teens (and there are several combinations to choose from) and you are almost guaranteed a confrontation.

We've had two threads in the last couple of weeks where well intentioned folks attempted to address aberrant public behavior in a group and both situations escalated. Keeping in mind that my first goal is to protect myself and my family, I'll take these situations as a sign that my attempt to address similar public behavior in the future is likely to result in a similar escalation. In addition, I'm very concerned that if a violent confrontation occurred, the truth about what happened would never see the light of day since it would be many to one (or two) telling the story. The thread where the guy was attacked by two unarmed women and a boyfriend confirms that, too.

We have a choice of movie houses in our area. AMC, which is 30.06 posted and Tinseltown, which is not. I'd never think about going to the movie unarmed so AMC is not an option for me. That said, I don't go to the movies to attempt to cure the ills of society. If I'm going to be faced with an unruly mob (and that is the best description that I can come up with, based on my reading of the story), I'm going to hand the
situation over to others. I wouldn't hesitate to get theater management and/or LEOs involved but I'm not going to attempt it myself. If nothing else underscores the gravity of the potential situation, the fact that the teens in the article were willing to take on uniformed, armed LEOs should. Wasn't there a wise saying about the best way to win a gun fight was not to be there when it happened? If I'm forced into, that is one thing. If I have the option not to be there, I'm going to take it.

The AMC at Willowbrook is no longer 30.06.

And forgive me if I am reading your post incorrectly, but it seems to me that your take on the situation would require a certain degree of prescience that I lack.

[Excaliber]

But anyone who thinks they can whip out their handgun and immediately obtain crowd control over an angry mob need only recall what happened to Meredith Hunter (yes that's a guys name) at Altamont Speedway. He was almost instantly stabbed to death (in the head) and beaten to the point of non-recognition before he could get off a shot.

This is true.

A handgun is not a grenade launcher, and everyone in a mob knows it. Most of these folks have seen lots of people shot with handguns, and they know most handgun wounds are survivable. Many would be more afraid if they were confronted with a knife.

I've been in the position of having to draw a gun to protect myself or others from a mob more than once and can tell you that the best you can hope for is to buy yourself maybe thirty seconds to execute plan B and get out of Dodge before the mob gets over its initial surprise and some intoxicated individual yells, "Get 'em!". The tactic only works if you've got some distance between you and the perimeter of the mob (meaning a minimum of 20 feet or so.) Your options and likelihood of success will diminish in direct proportion to decreases in distance between you and the mob.

[DONT TREAD ON ME]

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/12/29/ir ... latestnews

This is one reason I carry. To protect my family. However, I wonder what would happen with that many thugs. You draw your weapon to get them to back off but there are so many do y'all think that they would disperse or try to pounce on you?

Part of being a CHL'er is to avoid confrontation. Draw your weapon to preserve life and limb, not your virgin ears.

Did you even read the story?

1.Man and wife go to the movies.
2.Man tries to correct 15 plus bad years of parenting. Mistake number one.
3.Disturbance escalated and the group began cursing. Mistake number two.
4.Wife does right thing too late.
5.Couple leaves and gets ambushed.
6.What am I missing?

xd wrote this is one reason why I carry. So he can protect his family after trying to correct someone else's behavior, thats what I got out of it.

Wow, I NEVER said that I carry to protect my family after trying to correct someone else's behavior. As the quote from me shows I said that this is the reason I carry. To protect my family. In case something like this breaks out. How was it a mistake on the soldiers part to correct the thugs? He and his wife paid to see a movie. The thugs were being obnoxious and ruining it so he asked them to quiet down. There is nothing wrong with that.

[Abraham]

Many moons ago I quit going to the movies because people in general, non-thugs, can't quit yapping or pushing against the back of my seat.

I've politely asked people to please stop talking while the movie is in progress and what response did I get?

None.

They just keep talking or thrashing the back of my seat. People treat the movie going experience as if it were being held in their living room with no regard for others. They breezily discuss what they had for lunch or make and take cell phone calls. Yeah, I really want to pay to experience this...

I'm not ever again going to attempt to correct someone's obnoxious behavior because I paid the price of admission or I'm in a public venue and people are misbehaving with foul language or actions. I'll vacant the area first. It's not worth the risk. Am I being cowardly? I don't thing so. I'm being smart. It's not my job to correct the world's ills...

P.S. Netflix and Blockbuster is your friend.

[baldeagle]

But anyone who thinks they can whip out their handgun and immediately obtain crowd control over an angry mob need only recall what happened to Meredith Hunter (yes that's a guys name) at Altamont Speedway. He was almost instantly stabbed to death (in the head) and beaten to the point of non-recognition before he could get off a shot.

Your choice of Meredith Hunter in support of your argument is a particularly curious one. Rather than selecting an instance of a law abiding citizen attempting to defend themselves against attack, you selected a man who chose to draw a weapon in the midst of a crowd, directly below the stage, and announce that he was going to kill Mick Jagger. While the biker's response was excessive, what did you expect them to do? Let him shoot Jagger? And how in the name of all that is holy does that possibly support the position that it's better to avoid being confronted by a mob than to try to stop one by drawing your weapon?

You point is well taken, but your example could not have been more poorly chosen.

See this video for what happened to Meredith Hunter. link to video (I have to link to it rather than display it here due to forum rules.) I disagree completely with the attitude portrayed in the text preceding the video, but if you watch the video, there was no mob, there was no violence, there was no threat. Hunter pulled a firearm, ostensibly for the purpose of shooting Jagger, and the biker (who was hired to provide security for the concert) stabbed him. Whether it was justifiable homicide or not would be for a jury to decide, but the testimony of witnesses on scene at the time makes it clear, along with the video, that Hunter was not in any danger when he pulled his weapon.

EDIT: According to Wikipedia, a jury acquitted the biker.

[Oldgringo]

Many moons ago I quit going to the movies because people in general, non-thugs, can't quit yapping or pushing against the back of my seat.

P.S. Netflix and Blockbuster is your friend.

Roger that! Plus, my month long supply of NetFlix costs less than one night out in the movie theatre - not that that is important.

[OldSchool]

Many moons ago I quit going to the movies because people in general, non-thugs, can't quit yapping or pushing against the back of my seat.

P.S. Netflix and Blockbuster is your friend.

Roger that! Plus, my month long supply of NetFlix costs less than one night out in the movie theatre - not that that is important.

Plus, there have been very, very few entertaining movies worth spending the money, especially to put up with the universal rudeness. I can get abused by DynaBlue cheaper at home!

[chasfm11]

And forgive me if I am reading your post incorrectly, but it seems to me that your take on the situation would require a certain degree of prescience that I lack.

I can understand why you would say that but that is not the perspective from which I was writing the post. A part of of my job is risk management. Over the years, I've determined what "high risk" actions are for me. Others might not share them. For example, if I'm running errands around town and have a choice of stops which avoids left hand turns across traffic, I take that route. Why? Well, it isn't because I cannot turn the steering wheel to the left but because making the left turn leaves out in the center for a much longer time where I'm vulnerable to some idiot who is trying to drive and text ploughing into me from the rear, even if I'm in a designated turn lane.

I consider addressing any group in public with anything but a positive message to be high risk. I do not know the outcome as your use of the word prescience suggests but I do know that I'm more likely to be presented with a conflict situation than I might have been if I had said the same thing to an individual. To me, it is the same reason that, if there is any way to avoid it, I'm not on the road at 2am. It is simply me trying to avoid perceived high risk situations. I've observed too many times where someone in a group being addressed, perhaps not even the person to whom the remarks are made, takes umbrage and suddenly the situation turned ugly. When I managed groups and wanted to take some disciplinary action (even if it was going to be directed at multiple members of the group), I did it individually. People will say things in front an audience, particularly one of their peers, that they would never say to someone alone.