HGTV: Use an American flag as a tablecloth!

[howdy]

I'm sorry, but I fail to see a real problem here. With all the real issues to get upset about in the world, I don't see how a flag being used as a decoration is relevant.

This is what is relevant. I think I will end my comments here...

[Dadtodabone]

I'm sorry, but I fail to see a real problem here. With all the real issues to get upset about in the world, I don't see how a flag being used as a decoration is relevant.

The Flag is a Symbol of the U.S. The U.S. has laws, that while advisory in nature, describe how the flag is to be flown and/or used in ceremony. That one of the most beloved by us and best known international symbols of our nation was being used as a table cloth or in the 2nd instance a drop cloth, demeans it and us.
That you see no "relevant" issue in such use is troubling for someone who served beneath it.
Are any of our national symbols important? What about religious?
What if they had decided to do decoupage with illuminations from the Bible? Had a partially unrolled Torah as a hand towel? Used the Koran as a base for a center piece? A crucifix as a support for a vine?

[ss1088]

Should people really be that upset about this? It's obvious that there is no malicious intent here. To say that its un-American or an insult to our military it simply delusional. While HGTV probably should have been smart enough to realize there is a certain segment of the population that would be offended by this, let's not demonize them for it. There are plenty of other valid reasons to be upset at HGTV. Their intent was clearly patriotic.

To answer the question above: no, I don't really see it as a big deal if someone burns our flag. I think an American should have that right to express themselves, even if I don't agree with it. It doesn't cause any real harm. It may be an exercise of their freedom of speech, which is actually something people actually gave their lives for. However, It's not something that I would personally do or advocate.

I am going to avoid any topics of religion because my response will just be deleted.

[Dadtodabone]

Should people really be that upset about this? It's obvious that there is no malicious intent here. To say that its un-American or an insult to our military it simply delusional. While HGTV probably should have been smart enough to realize there is a certain segment of the population that would be offended by this, let's not demonize them for it. There are plenty of other valid reasons to be upset at HGTV. Their intent was clearly patriotic.

To answer the question above: no, I don't really see it as a big deal if someone burns our flag. I think an American should have that right to express themselves, even if I don't agree with it. It doesn't cause any real harm. It may be an exercise of their freedom of speech, which is actually something people actually gave their lives for. However, It's not something that I would personally do or advocate.

I am going to avoid any topics of religion because my response will just be deleted.

The religious objects that I listed in my post were an attempt to find out what you think about symbols. From your response I can see that symbols have had and still do have an effect on you and your life.
The flag is a symbol. Symbols are a concentrated form of communication. Due to the way we perceive the world around us, more is said to us and faster through symbols(images), than any other form of communication. An example would be how you stand, walk, sit or your gestures. They can communicate more to others on a conscious or subconscious level than what you actually say. We are influenced by the physical symbols around us, and those we hold in our mind. Simply put, symbols effect our emotions and how we experience the world.
When we understand the power of symbols, we can choose what values we want to emphasize, and what ideas we want in our society. What does the flag symbolize? It's different for all of us individually, but as a nation, what's tied up in that collection of stripes and stars? Unity, diversity, strength, righteousness, power, glory? For me, it's duty, honor, courage and sacrifice. My mother and one of my sisters, have both received a flag that draped the casket of a husband and a son. I'm not in the least delusional when I state that for me, the use of the flag as anything but a symbol, is demeaning to their sacrifice, my service and the sacrifice and service of millions of other citizens of these United States.
Sadly symbols can also be used to deceive, or to negatively influence people. Misused, symbols can be powerfully destructive things.
Symbols hold societies together, a sort of glue that binds us to each other. Symbols can motivate a people, a society to achieve it's goals. Conversely the destruction or maligning of symbols, even though not malicious, can and has damaged societies from time immemorial. I believe the modern term is "Dissing"? Burning the flag(which is an approved method of disposal of old or worn flags) as a statement of dissent is protected by the 1st Amendment. The "casual" use of the flag to catch spills at the table isn't. It's the "casual" disregard for what the flag means to you, me and everyone else that makes what they did wrong.

[TexasCajun]

I'm sorry, but I fail to see a real problem here. With all the real issues to get upset about in the world, I don't see how a flag being used as a decoration is relevant.

The problem is that the flag represents a set of ideals that people have fought and died for. Using the flag as a tablecloth, decoration, or anything else less than a dignified & respectful display demeans that sacrifice.

[MeMelYup]

Would a picture of the president using a napkin, that was a replica of our Decloration of Independence or U.S. Constitution, to wipe his mouth with be appropriate? Would it be ok to use the same as a doormat or rug?

[jocat54]

Should people really be that upset about this? It's obvious that there is no malicious intent here. To say that its un-American or an insult to our military it simply delusional. While HGTV probably should have been smart enough to realize there is a certain segment of the population that would be offended by this, let's not demonize them for it. There are plenty of other valid reasons to be upset at HGTV. Their intent was clearly patriotic.

To answer the question above: no, I don't really see it as a big deal if someone burns our flag. I think an American should have that right to express themselves, even if I don't agree with it. It doesn't cause any real harm. It may be an exercise of their freedom of speech, which is actually something people actually gave their lives for. However, It's not something that I would personally do or advocate.

I am going to avoid any topics of religion because my response will just be deleted.

I do respect you having an opinion and being able to voice that opinion.........but if someone is burning our flag in my presence the fight will be on......may not win that fight , but it will be on. I lost a lot of my friends for my flag and my country.

[ss1088]

It is clear that the flag has a deeper meaning to most people on this forum than it does to me or the person who decided to use it as a table runner. That being said, their intentions were not meant to upset or challenge those deep seeded ideals.

Just because a symbol has a certain meaning to you and other people you associate with, doesn't mean all other people should have to think the same way. The kind of people who would take violent action against someone for not following the flag code concern me more than the actual person burning the flag. Not tolerating people with different ideas, beliefs, and ways of expression goes against the freedoms the flag stands for.

[MeMelYup]

It is clear that the flag has a deeper meaning to most people on this forum than it does to me or the person who decided to use it as a table runner. That being said, their intentions were not meant to upset or challenge those deep seeded ideals.

Just because a symbol has a certain meaning to you and other people you associate with, doesn't mean all other people should have to think the same way. The kind of people who would take violent action against someone for not following the flag code concern me more than the actual person burning the flag. Not tolerating people with different ideas, beliefs, and ways of expression goes against the freedoms the flag stands for.

I would not kill over it, my feelings about that person would be about the same for someone that commits rape, spousal abuse, or someone that thinks the U.S. owes them everything they want. Yes, it would be a very low opinion of the person.

[anygunanywhere]

Should people really be that upset about this? It's obvious that there is no malicious intent here. To say that its un-American or an insult to our military it simply delusional. While HGTV probably should have been smart enough to realize there is a certain segment of the population that would be offended by this, let's not demonize them for it. There are plenty of other valid reasons to be upset at HGTV. Their intent was clearly patriotic.

To answer the question above: no, I don't really see it as a big deal if someone burns our flag. I think an American should have that right to express themselves, even if I don't agree with it. It doesn't cause any real harm. It may be an exercise of their freedom of speech, which is actually something people actually gave their lives for. However, It's not something that I would personally do or advocate.

I am going to avoid any topics of religion because my response will just be deleted.

I do respect you having an opinion and being able to voice that opinion.........but if someone is burning our flag in my presence the fight will be on......may not win that fight , but it will be on. I lost a lot of my friends for my flag and my country.

This.

It is a shame patriotism and love of country is not a priority to as many as in the past. I gave 6 years of my life defending this country and way of life including the Constitution and BOR.

If I ever see a flag desecration....well...pity the poor fool.

The time will come soon when true patriots will have to prove themselves again.

The rest of you who are not can keep your faces buried in your cell phones at the mall or hunker in front of the idiot box watching Idol or Bachelor.

Anygunanywhere

[ss1088]

It is clear that the flag has a deeper meaning to most people on this forum than it does to me or the person who decided to use it as a table runner. That being said, their intentions were not meant to upset or challenge those deep seeded ideals.

Just because a symbol has a certain meaning to you and other people you associate with, doesn't mean all other people should have to think the same way. The kind of people who would take violent action against someone for not following the flag code concern me more than the actual person burning the flag. Not tolerating people with different ideas, beliefs, and ways of expression goes against the freedoms the flag stands for.

I would not kill over it, my feelings about that person would be about the same for someone that commits rape, spousal abuse, or someone that thinks the U.S. owes them everything they want. Yes, it would be a very low opinion of the person.

I don't understand how one can group rape and domestic violence in the same realm as not following the flag code. This kind of thinking is just astounding to me. Please help me understand how they are even close to being equally as abhorrent.
This seems to be the same kind of thinking that the fundamentalist in the middle east have when American values contradict their traditions and beliefs.

[psijac]

If that flag does not offend you that's fine. different people are offended by different things. But claiming ignorance to why someone would be offended is not fine. Why are muslims offended by depictions of the profit Muhammed (peace be upon him) There is a good chance you don't know why or even really care you just prefer to keep your head.

That just the values they were brought up with. And by saying something is not offensive when it is to some is putting down their entire culture and upbringing. Table clothes are designed to catch moisture and food debris which is often covered in saliva. what symbol should be used collect dog scraps?

[ss1088]

But claiming ignorance to why someone would be offended is not fine.

I don't understand why this is not acceptable. Can you elaborate. I actually had a hard time following your whole post, but this is what stuck out to me the most.

[G26ster]

But claiming ignorance to why someone would be offended is not fine.

I don't understand why this is not acceptable. Can you elaborate. I actually had a hard time following your whole post, but this is what stuck out to me the most.

Let's cut the red herrings about rape, and flag burning, etc. and stick to your original comment. You said, "I don't see how a flag being used as a decoration is relevant."

That is the issue. You don't see! You don't see what the flag means to millions of Americans, some who fought for our rights, and the families of those that died for our rights. You are blind as to why we salute the flag, or pledge allegiance to the flag, or hold the Star Spangled Banner as our national Anthem in reverence. That's the whole point - you don't see! It appears that you simply consider the flag just another corporate logo, and perfectly fine to be stained and marred by scraps food. Millions, upon millions of Americans do not agree with you, regardless of your right to be blind.

[Pacifist]

I can't be the only one who sees more than a little irony in the fact that there are people here actually threatening violent intervention against those who are exercising their First Amendment rights (and, like it or not, that's what "desecration" of the flag is), while at the same time using as partial or full justification for that violence the fact that "I spent 'x' number of years defending those rights," and/or "there were many who died" in defense of those same rights. Sometimes these threads are just too darn funny.