Who is more American?

[The Annoyed Man]

And, I guess that this squabble means we have to stop using "African-American," "Mexican-American," "Italian-American," "Native-American," and "Anglo-American"—all terms denoting some racial/ethnic subset of citizens of the U.S.—because we wouldn't want to offend anyone who is not "American."

[shooter76blue]

When I was growing up, I was never referred to as an American. It was always Mexican-American, Latino, or whatever else someone else wished to call me. Mind you I did not come up with any of these terms, someone else did. Now we have come completely around and want to be known only as American. Well I served 24 years in the American Air Forces and am very proud of all our athletes whether they won a medal or not. But when you are athletic enough to win a silver medal for your country competing against the best athletes in the world, you should be allowed to show your exuberance however you wish. As for those that made disparaging remarks about Manzano as an athlete; I am sure you can challenge him any time you want. And that's what I think about that...

[Hola Gato]

Mike Tyson was a great boxer. That didn't make him a good person. And that's what I think about that.

[Jim Beaux]

First of all, of the two people mentioned in the article, there is one and only one "American". And if you want to be specific, the majority of people living in this country are immigrants with a small minority being Native American. You can debate whether he should have displayed the Mexican flag all day long but every AMERICAN should be proud that he won the silver medal for the United States of America...

How offensive; everyone on this continent is a descendant of an immigrant. The people who you refer to as native are descendants of Asians, who immigrated across the Bering land bridge.

Though a descendant of various European nationalities, I was born here and therefore a native American, and I have no more rights or privileges than those whose ancestors arrived after mine. American citizenship is not based on seniority.

There is only one American, and anyone who wishes to claim other is perpetuating a political correctness myth.

[shooter76blue]

Be offended then...

[nyj]

He was born in Mexico and represents the United States of America in the Olympics. What is the problem? I'd represent my heritage as well.

[OldCannon]

He was born in Mexico and represents the United States of America in the Olympics. What is the problem? I'd represent my heritage as well.

I suggest he run for Mexico next time then.

[Skiprr]

He was born in Mexico and represents the United States of America in the Olympics. What is the problem? I'd represent my heritage as well.

I suggest he run for Mexico next time then.

I agree. The Games were full of athletes born in one country but citizens of and representing another.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but this was the only instance in the 2012 Olympics where an athlete held up two flags claiming two allegiances.

Did he swear an oath of citizenship, or did he not?

If he had won, what national anthem would have been played?

[snatchel]

I'm thinking this got way out of hand.

Remember when this was controversial.......................?

[The Annoyed Man]

I'm not offended by his exuberance. I'm not offended by whether or not he is a 1st, 2nd, or 20th generation immigrant. I am not offended by his family's particular nation of origin, regardless of which country it is. And as I have previously stated, I am not offended by either an immigrant or a native born son/daughter celebrating their particular ethnic heritage. Without such "celebrations," we would not be enjoying Mexican Food, Bollywood movies, Carribian rhythms, or Gospel music. None of it. And kudos to this young man, by the way for his accomplishments.

But when you go to the Olympics, as part of the U.S. Olympic Team, funded by the USA, trained by the USA, and supported in a foreign land by the USA, then you do so under the flag of the USA, representing the citizens of the USA, whose flag is Old Glory.

I bear the Mexican Olympic team no ill will, and I think that the olympic ideal, that of nations able to put aside whatever differences they have for two weeks in the summer every four years to celebrate sport at its highest accomplishment is a noble one.

But their athletes compete under the Mexican flag......which is exactly as it should be. Ours compete under the American flag.......which is exactly as it should be. When an athlete of any nation accepts the help from his country that it takes to get to the Olympics to represent his country, let there be no confusion about whom he represents. It is about gratitude to the nation that got you there. Mexico did not get this young man to the Olympics. He went there representing all of us....here in the USA.

Truthfully, I'm not that personally upset by it, simply because in the large scheme of things, one individual's protocol gaff is pretty small potatos. But that said, it does cause me to ask, where do his loyalties lie? With the nation that made this life he has possbile, or with the nation he and his family left because it was too corrupt and bankrupt in the middle of such bountiful resources to provide for its own citizens? And if it lies with that country, then how on earth can one celebrate it by waving that country's flag? And if it lies with the USA, then why wave that country's flag at all?

[snatchel]

Touche, TAM.

I understand exactly where your coming from.

Here is where I compare this to:

If I were an Olympic athlete..... competing as a US citizen, and were to win a gold medal, you know what I would do? I would run around like a mad-man with the American flag. You can also bet your bottom that I'd be running around with a Texas flag too.

When I was in the military, I would wear a TX flag patch rather than a US flag. I got a whole lotta grief about it from others, particularly non-Texans. They never went so far as to call it un-American, but they did say that I should be representing the United States, not my state. I'm infinitely proud of my heritage as a Texan. It's a lifestyle and a privilege. In the end, i'm American.... but I'm a Texan first. I always thought that the uniform I was wearing was proof enough of my loyalty.

I'm not sure if y'all can see the parallel I am drawing from this, but I'm not sure I can put it into better words.

YMMV

[recaffeination]

If a MLB pitcher was born in MA and decided to wave a Boston Red Sox flag after winnng a World Series game as a member of the NY Yankees team, would that be rude or just celebrating his heritage?

[RoyGBiv]

He was born in Mexico and represents the United States of America in the Olympics. What is the problem? I'd represent my heritage as well.

I suggest he run for Mexico next time then.

Or take off the "USA" jersey and you can carry any flag you like.
Hyphenated-Americanism.... It's personal choice, not a team value.

Bravo Mr. Bolt.

[The Annoyed Man]

Touche, TAM.

I understand exactly where your coming from.

Here is where I compare this to:

If I were an Olympic athlete..... competing as a US citizen, and were to win a gold medal, you know what I would do? I would run around like a mad-man with the American flag. You can also bet your bottom that I'd be running around with a Texas flag too.

When I was in the military, I would wear a TX flag patch rather than a US flag. I got a whole lotta grief about it from others, particularly non-Texans. They never went so far as to call it un-American, but they did say that I should be representing the United States, not my state. I'm infinitely proud of my heritage as a Texan. It's a lifestyle and a privilege. In the end, i'm American.... but I'm a Texan first. I always thought that the uniform I was wearing was proof enough of my loyalty.

I'm not sure if y'all can see the parallel I am drawing from this, but I'm not sure I can put it into better words.

YMMV

Snatchel, I hear you, but I would add one salient fact. Last I checked, Texas is part of the USA. Mexico is not. If some swabbie from ConnectTheDots or Commiefornia is jealous of your Texas heritage, too bad for him.

If you had been wearing a patch bearing the state flag of Sinaloa or Oaxaca, that would have been kind of offensive. And that is a closer parallel to what this kid did. He may not have meant anything by it, but that doesn't change the fact that our actions and words have consequences, sometimes out of proportion to what we're able to see at any given moment. My guess is that if he had reflected on it before he did it, he might have chosen discretion and not waved the Mexican flag. This is why, although there is nothing wrong with spontaneous good fun as long as nobody gets hurt, there are some things in life that are so momentous that they should cause us to pause and reflect a moment before we take the next step—whatever that is. Winning a medal at the Olympics is one of those moments in life that is that momentous. If this young man's gaff is the result of not taking such a pause, that would be a sign of immaturity. If he did take such a pause, and he still decided that celebrating with a foreign flag was the right thing to do, then I question his commitment to the nation that succored him.

The thing is service to the nation, and being an olympian are two very different things, even thought they both require commitment. An olympian does not make a covenant with the nation that sends him to give up his life if that is what is necessary. An olympian will know hard work to get there, but he will be celebrated, wined and dined, interviewed by the press, and made into a media darling. A soldier/sailor/marine/airman/coastie will give up long sleepless nights on watch, face many dangers, go to bed dirty and tired and not get enough sleep, hold a buddy's head and hands as he bleeds out, curse the service that sent him away, and kiss the ground when he returns home......on about half the pay that most of us make. The wife who sends her husband off to war may never see him again. The child who hugs her daddy when he leaves may grow up never having really known him. And all of that, ALL of it, is for what? It is for the chance be able to hold your head up and know that you did your duty. It's for the love of your country. Maybe it's for the fun if you're a risk-taker, but it stops being fun when people die for real.

Olympians are but a pale reflection of that kind of glory. I give them their due, and they earned it by being willing to put in the work to get there. But, not everybody can be that, and not just because they're not willing. On the best day I ever had, I could have never been a world-class runner. I've never been built for it. Even when I was in superb condition, I was slow. So being an olympian is also about being in an elite group of people. I don't know the total number of athletes from all nations that competed this year, but I think an estimate of 2,000-3,000 is probably reasonable. But even if it is double or triple that, the world population is about 6.5 billion, so it is a tiny tiny fraction of the best of the best of the best who make it to the Olympics.

But to join our military—and I say this with with the utmost respect—you don't have to be exceptional.....except in the desire to serve, which is a rare enough trait. The military will take someone of average to maybe above-average physical condition (not olympians), and average to above-average intelligence and then shape that person into whatever the service needs them to be—teaching them along the way the skills they need to be a leader, to be dependable, to be skilled in their MOS...all of that. In other words, the military is something that is available to most of us (at the right age). The Olympics is not. The military is the "great equalizer." The Olympics is not. The military is an engine for opportunity for anybody who is motivated to take advantage of it. The Olympics is not. And when the person in the military musters out and returns to civilian life, unless they were born rich they will struggle financiall just like every other average American struggles. The olympian, OTH, will parlay their medals and fame into million dollar product endorsements and have their face on a Wheaties box.....so they are two very different worlds.

So it is indeed a very rare privilege to represent your country at an Olympics. In that light, wave your country's flag, not some other country's flag.

YMMV as well.

[snatchel]

Alright, I'm convinced.

I wouldn't call it ..... un-American to wave the Mexican and American flag... but I can now say in good conscience that I believe it was not in good taste.