Texasguntrader deal gone south - opinions welcomed

[jtran987]

Hey all, just had a situation with a deal on texasguntrader.com go south real bad and would like some opinions on what I should do next. So let me just lay out the situation for ya'll:

Saw and ad for a rifle at a great price, contacted to seller and negotiated out a price we can settle on. I offered to pay via a discreet paypal transaction, the seller the refused and said he would only accept a USPS money order. So I go and get the money order in the amount of $850 plus the fee, and then send it certified mail with a signature required. Well first it takes him 5 days to go get the mail, when he finally is "able" to get to the post office to pick it up. It then takes him a few more days to take it to get deposited. Well he went yesterday to get it deposited and lost the darned money order on his way there and has no idea where it is. He then tells me to cancel it and to send him a new one with a cost of replacement and sending a new one off the requested price of the rifle. Well the USPS doesn't just offer a replacement they take at least 60 days to process a replacement.

Now here is where I want ya'lls opinion:

I tell the guy that he still owes me a rifle. In all fairness I have paid him, and a USPS money order is like cash and he did receive it and he was the one who lost the money order. I told him once I receive a replacement from the USPS I will then forward that to him. I believe this is fair because as it stands I have paid out 850 and have neither my money nor my rifle at no fault of my own. I mentioned that if you went into a store and paid for a couch to be delivered, and the store then lost your money, the store would still deliver the couch. This guy refuses to do that and says its not his fault and that he did not receive payment and won't ship the rifle till he does.

What do ya'll think? Should I say screw it and wait 60 days for my replacement and take it as a learning experience or should I report this as internet fraud/theft? Or is there anything I can do?

Any help is appreciated thanks!

[WildBill]

I tell the guy that he still owes me a rifle. In all fairness I have paid him, and a USPS money order is like cash and he did receive it and he was the one who lost the money order. I told him once I receive a replacement from the USPS I will then forward that to him. I believe this is fair because as it stands I have paid out 850 and have neither my money nor my rifle at no fault of my own. I mentioned that if you went into a store and paid for a couch to be delivered, and the store then lost your money, the store would still deliver the couch. This guy refuses to do that and says its not his fault and that he did not receive payment and won't ship the rifle till he does.

What do ya'll think? Should I say screw it and wait 60 days for my replacement and take it as a learning experience or should I report this as internet fraud/theft? Or is there anything I can do?

Any help is appreciated thanks!

He sounds like a flake. Can you get the website to do anything? Can you post feedback. Mail fraud?

I would wait 60 days and cancel the money order and get a refund and never do business with this guy.

[AEA]

In Texas? For 850.00 I would be taking a road trip for a face to face visit and pick up my rifle.

Seriously, I would make the road trip, take the USPS MO receipt with you. Visit the local Police Dept and explain the situation and hopefully they will go out for a visit with you.

Also, file a claim with USPS and get them to inform you in writing when the MO is paid out.

[The Annoyed Man]

I tell the guy that he still owes me a rifle. In all fairness I have paid him, and a USPS money order is like cash and he did receive it and he was the one who lost the money order. I told him once I receive a replacement from the USPS I will then forward that to him. I believe this is fair because as it stands I have paid out 850 and have neither my money nor my rifle at no fault of my own. I mentioned that if you went into a store and paid for a couch to be delivered, and the store then lost your money, the store would still deliver the couch. This guy refuses to do that and says its not his fault and that he did not receive payment and won't ship the rifle till he does.

What do ya'll think? Should I say screw it and wait 60 days for my replacement and take it as a learning experience or should I report this as internet fraud/theft? Or is there anything I can do?

Any help is appreciated thanks!

He sounds like a flake. Can you get the website to do anything? Can you post feedback. Mail fraud?

I would wait 60 days and cancel the money order and get a refund and never do business with this guy.

I have sold a couple of guns through TexasGunTrader.com, and if I recall correctly, I believe that sellers are required to agree to a standard of behavior. If they don't adhere to it, you have the right to report them to the management. Rifles are a dime a dozen. If you check that website again in 2 weeks, there will be another one just like it available, maybe even at a better price.

I would:

1. Cancel the money order while you still can if the post office will let you, take the hit of the fee, and lesson learned. Maybe the money order was stolen? This guy is obviously irresponsible if he has no idea where a $850 payment is. If it was stolen and cashed by a family member or friend of his, your money is gone. Take steps NOW to prevent that loss, even if it means you pay USPS a fee.
2. Report the seller to TexasGunTrader.com and have his privileges suspended.
3. Buy somebody else's gun, face to face only and cash only (there is a reason I insist on face to face cash transactions when I'm selling a gun of mine, or buying from someone else.......you haven't even seen this rifle in person yet and photos can be deceptive) UNLESS there is some way to hold the funds in an escrow account pending the mutual satisfaction of both parties. Someone who will only accept a USPS money order has an agenda of some kind. Even if it is not a nefarious agenda, I have my own agenda and I'm not going to dance to someone else's unless it is compatible with mine.
4. What AEA said.

[E.Marquez]

Buy somebody else's gun, face to face only and cash only (there is a reason I insist on face to face cash transactions when I'm selling a gun of mine, or buying from someone else.......you haven't even seen this rifle in person yet and photos can be deceptive) UNLESS there is some way to hold the funds in an escrow account pending the mutual satisfaction of both parties. Someone who will only accept a USPS money order has an agenda of some kind. Even if it is not a nefarious agenda, I have my own agenda and I'm not going to dance to someone else's unless it is compatible with mine.

Which is why I'm driving 2 hours plus to deliver a rifle for a cash payment tomorrow.

to the OP.. Guy is a flake, he had the payment, your part of the transaction was complete, his loosing the payment is his issue.. even if you decide to assist him.

No idea on the legalities of it all, but at this point were I you, I would feel the loose as having been stolen from.

[jtran987]

I have already gone to the post office and filled out the PS 6401 money inquiry form to cancel the money order is there anything else I can do?

This guy was located in El Paso which I wasn't going to drive to from Houston. Usually I would opt for a FTF.

There are a number of online government websites dealing with internet fraud should I report him there as well?

[Jumping Frog]

Report him to USPS for mail fraud.

Did you send the payment by certifISD mail (I hope)?

[WildBill]

Sometimes a dishonest person will make a deal and then another buyer comes along and offers more money so they will make up some excuse not to sell it to the original buyer.

[barstoolguru]

Sounds like you might be screwed for the money. 60 days is a long time to wait and see if he really did cash the money order or lose it. Just for the record I don't think pay pal does transfer for guns or ammo.
I would make sure I had all his info and get ready to file a law suit. here in Texas you can file for a 100.00 and have him served and he will have to come to the court you file in so there is a chance he will not show and you get a judgment against him.
For 850 bucks I want to hold it and look at it, never buy over the internet

[jimlongley]

I have to agree with everyone else on this one.

Look at it this way. You make a deal to buy a gun, and meet the seller, and he takes your money and goes into another room to get the gun, and then he comes back and says that on his way to get the gun he lost the money so you need to get some more.

You have, for all intents and purposes, given him the money, and he has signed for it, now he owes you a gun.

Many years ago I bought a target shooting coat. These things provide support and padding for target shooting, which I was very involved in at the time and was willing to spend a few extra bucks to get a quality product. This is an example, but not the one: http://www.championshooters.com/store/p ... 282&page=1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I sent a credit union money order to the company because a personal check would take longer to clear and I wanted the coat for an upcoming match. The mail order branch of the company sent the coat, and it arrived in time to make the trip to CT with me and help me to win a 5th place (pewter) medal in my division. A few weeks later I received a letter from the outfit, a well known name in shooter's supplies, stating that the money order was not any good and that I would have to pony up the money for the coat again. A quick check with my credit union indicated that the money order had been paid out by them to the company I was dealing with. I called the company back and suggested that they contact the credit union directly, as I had paid them the money and the credit union had honored it, and I didn't feel responsible for their accounting error. They made all kinds of noise about suing me ((for $115.00???) it was a GOOD jacket) and such, and they were going to slander my name all over the place, etc, etc, etc. I told them I welcomed them to sue all they wanted, but to be prepared for a counter suit. Never heard another word from them. I suspect that in those pre-computer ages, the money got credited to someone else's account. THEM I held responsible for the screwup and I put their name up on the wall of shame at the gun club (our analog version of 3006.com), with full details.

[jtran987]

Thanks for all the replies. And yes I did send it certified so yes I have all the information about it being delivered and signed for.

[Transplant]

I think gun trader should have some rules about this that you can use in your favor. 2 months is too long to be waiting to get your money back because of his ineptitude, in my opinion. If he regularly sells guns on gun trader the threat of being banned if he broke their rules may be enough to coerce him to action.

[The Annoyed Man]

I think gun trader should have some rules about this that you can use in your favor. 2 months is too long to be waiting to get your money back because of his ineptitude, in my opinion. If he regularly sells guns on gun trader the threat of being banned if he broke their rules may be enough to coerce him to action.

TexasGunTrader.com does make an effort to get sellers and buyers to comply with a given standard, but they take no responsibility for what people actually do. However, if it can be demonstrated that someone behaved unethically on their website, TexasGunTrader.com will suspend/remove that person's privileges.

[03Lightningrocks]

I have made several transactions on gunbroker, which is a similar service. I only had one occasion to get suspicious and I told the guy the only way I would go through with the deal is if we used an escrow type service. Basically they hold the money until the gun is delivered and then hand it to the seller. This particular seller was listed as having one address and then told me to send payment to a different address. My alarm went off and I backed out. Gunbroker backed me up and suspended the guys account for trying to get money sent to a different address than on file. When selling, I allow folks to pay me by credit card since I have credit card processing for my business anyway and when buying I never buy from a newb.

I figure if a feller has several good feedbacks as a seller or buyer, they are less likely to do me wrong. I always pay by credit card if they give the option. That way I can dispute it if they burn me.

PayPal has some kind of anti gun policy. From what I gather, if you do a gun transaction through them, you have to lie and say it is something else.

Sorry the guy burned you. I hate to say to do something that might lead to trouble but you may have to drive to his address and like aea said... Maybe get law enforcement involved. I always thought combining a firearm with mail fraud could get a person into a serious problem with the law. Maybe not but it sure seems serious to me!